Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Thanks again for your encouragement!

    I am by nature a very scientific person.. Dont take any of my posts as bieng agressive, im just trying to understand (I know nobody has, but I can see how threads like this get out of hand!)

    I just cant understand what makes the large difference in recoil... Recoil is the -re-action of the rifle from the bullet bieng accellerated by the gunpowder.

    When a 150 gr .30 cal bullet is accellerated to 2850 fps in 24 inches, it exerts roughly about 2700 ft lbs on the rifle for a small amount of time (the impulse).

    The .308 and 30-06 both impart very similar energy amounts onto the same 30 cal bullet. I can beleave that the recoil may feel different, but the *amount* of recoil should be very close.

    If the impulse of one cartrige is longer than the other, it will give more of a 'push', and accellerate the bullet at a slower rate, for longer. This I beleave would be experienced as milder recoil, as opposed to a brief impulse with extreme accelleration which may feel like a kick.

    Perhaps the idea that the 30-06 gives significantly more recoil has something to do with the heavier bullets you can fire with it?

    I just have a hard time beleaving that a difference of 150 ft lbs of energy will really make a huge difference. Although I have never fired a .308, so what do I know?

    Please continue the discussion, its very interesting! Ill try and find a 50 cent piece to practice with..

    BTW For people worried about dry firing thier weapon, try getting snap caps
    http://www.pachmayr.com/azoom/index.htm

  2. #12
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    I use the A Zoom snap caps for my pistols. I have over a thousand dry fire with them in 9mm.

    As far as recoil is concerend...believe me when I tell you that the LA long action recoil is noticable compared to the SA short action. Depending on what time of year you shoot and how many rounds you fire...your shoulder may or may not notice it the next day. As I stated earlier...I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensative, but I like the SA better because it uses less powder and I don't like the added muzzle blast.

  3. #13
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    I beleive you!

    I origionally wanted my SPS in .308, but discovered they didnt have stainless .308 on the market yet, and it seemed that 30-06 availability was better.

    My next rifle will likely be a .308

    The muzzle blast doesent bother me, with good earplugs. Actually, its kindof satisfying

  4. #14
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    I'm not sure that you quite understood what I told you. With both the .308 and the 30/06, you can use slow burning powders, exactly the same powders if you do your own reloads. You're right probably in terms of physics that if one cartridge had a slower burning powder, the time to dissipate the energy would be different, BUT I'm telling you that if you use the exact same powder, the 30/06 will still kick harder than the .308. The reason is overbore found in the 30/06. What happens with overbore is that roughly the same amount of energy is transfered to both bullets, but there is still more force from the Long action rifle like the 30/06. The reason is because after the bullet has left the 30/06, there is still powder burning in the 30/06 casing that produces force opposite of it exiting the barrel. This is force that you will feel in the shoulder, but won't be imparted on the bullet because it has already exited the barrel. Since the .308 is a short action, it doesn't have the problem of overbore that calibers like the 30/06, 7mm mag, or .300 winmag will have, because all the powder has burned before the bullet exits. You also have to realize that barrel length plays a role in recoil, not just because the weight of the barrel will affect recoil, but the longer a barrel is the more pressure that is built up (and fps) as more powder has time to burn before the bullet exits. Maybe that helps a little, hope it clarifies things a bit, but just shoot a .308 some time, you'll notice, lol.

  5. #15
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    You could also try a 243 for the next rifle....seeing how the 30/06 and 308 are so similar. The 243 is good for ground hogs up to whitetail in PA. I load a 75 gr Vmax bullet and it puts a hurting on ground hogs.

    I haven't fired any of my rifles in a while...I have been focusing on pistols lately. I need to sight in my Tikka T3 in .308. Tikka's IMO are the best bargains in a factory rifle. The action on the Tikka is amazing. I used to be a Savage man, but the action on the Savage is horrible compared to the Tikka.

    Tom, is it me or does it feel that you and I are the only two replying in these threads? I say we need to jump start this forum. I like it here, but gosh there needs to be more interaction with the other members.
    Last edited by aubie515; May 17th, 2006 at 10:27 AM.

  6. #16
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    I was back at the range today.. still getting inconsistant results, but doing better.

    The first 5-8 shots I fired didnt get on the 3 inch NC target I stuck on a regular paper target.. So I couldant see where they ended up. After firing a few more shots, I started to hit the NC target, quite a few times. I strung 7 bullets horizontally across the 3 inch target, about an inch above bullseye. So I adjusted my scope 2 clicks down and went to get my target.

    The next target I was doing 'OK' on, I got a nice little 3 round group a smidge over an inch right on the 10 ring, but 2 shots went about 2 inches high. Probably from a flinch.

    The next target things got a little strange.. maybe you guys can help me with it. I fired about 6 shots and didnt hit anything.. I was trying evrything, focusing on my breathing, really trying to surprise myself with the trigger break.. It was very frustrating, I didnt know what I was doing wrong.

    I noticed I had a small group 4-4.5 inches to the right and slightly low.. It was a nice looking group. I decided to shoot a round 4-4.5 inches left and slightly high.. and *blam* bullseye. I did it again and got another bullseye, 2 shots within 1 inch. The third shot went high again, probably from a flinch or bad breathing technique.

    The rifle seemed to have lost its zero between targets.. the next targets the groupings were wider, perhaps because I was getting tired, but the round always dropped to the right.

    Im wondering if I should re-adjust my zero next time at the range, or if I was actually shooting high and to the right through inexperience and just kindof 'grew out' of that bad habit.. Maybe it was because the barrell got hot? I was trying to wait about a minute between shots.

    Ill post up pictures of the targets If I can find my camera!

    On the recoil issue:

    Tom, im not sure I follow your argument.. your saying the extra unburned powder that continues to burn afterwards contributes to the recoil? If that were so, then wouldant blanks have alot of recoil as well?

    EDIT:

    Ammo is starting to get expensive! Ive saved all my brass, and I must have around 200 cases.. I want to start reloading. The selection of target/practice rounds for the 30-06 is slim. This way I could fire the rounds that I want, and save a few bucks.

  7. #17
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    When the scope was mounted...did you mount the scope or did you have the shop you bought the rifle from bore sight the scope? Did you use blue lok tite on the base and rings? I would check the rings to make sure that the screws didn't come loose from shooting so much. When you bought the ammo...did you buy the same lot #...because accuracy can change from lot # to lot #. I would also check to see if the stock screws to make sure they are tight, but not so tight that the bolt doesn't function properly. I believe that the barrel on most Remingtons are "free floated" Take a business card or a dollar bill and slide it under the barrel. The business card should slide to the receiver without getting stuck. Have you tried different factory loads? Ammo and rifles are like husband and wife...you have to mix and match to see which two "fit" the best. You can have expensive ammo, but it may not shoot well in your rifle and vice versa. How many rounds do you fire before you clean the rifle? What sort of wind conditions did you have at the range?

    Those are some of the few questions I would be asking myself If I felt that my rifle went from shooting decent to not being able to group at all. I hope that you can narrow down what is causing the inconsistency in the rifle. Good luck my friend.

  8. #18
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    I did reseat the action in the stock, and the scope/mounts are all secure. It wasnt really windy that day.

    I was back at the range today, and the zero that I had from the previous day held. So I adjusted my scope and things went A-OK from then on.

    I think I may have figured out why some of my shots are inconsistant.

    I bought a bipod a while ago because the range I go to doesnt have rests. I noticed when I fire, the recoil lifts the barrel almost evry time. If the recoil does go straight back, the gun twists to the side.

    I fired 3 shots without the bipod and didnt think i did that well. The sights were pretty wobbly (compared to resting it), and the recoil still made the barrel rise. When I went to get my target, i was AMAZED that all 3 shots were in a nice 2 inch horizontal string, with the last of the 3 in the bullseye.

    How can I control recoil better using the bipod?

  9. #19
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    I would buy a front and rear rest....I have a few of them...I just bought a cheap caldwell one last week at bass pro. I don't use my bipods to sight in because I want to make sure I have my rifle steady. The only way you will truly know what your rifle is capable of shooting is to put it on a solid rest.

  10. #20
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    Id like to stay away from the full benchrest.. I want to see what *I* am capable of, I know my rifle is far more accurate than I am at the moment.

    And I know that shooting with a bipod its possible to get MUCH better groups than I currently do.. Im sure its a matter of controlling the recoil. Maybe im not placing the butt on my shoulder properly, or maybe im bieng too solid with my hold, and not letting the rifle recoil.. There has to be something.

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