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Thread: IWB Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Default IWB Open Carry

    This has probably been asked before, but searching for any posts related to "IWB" is tough with the search string minimum length requirement. So, please excuse my asking

    When I open carry here in PA, I tend to wear my Milt Sparks VM-2 IWB holster rather than a OWB holster as I find the VM-2/IWB combination to be the most comfortable.

    So, my question is simple: Is a gun carried in an IWB holster legally considered "open", or is the partial concealment of the holster enough to qualify as a concealed weapon?

    Most of the definitions of open carry that I see are similar to the wording I found at http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/concealed-weapons/, which states that a weapon is not considered to be concealed if it is "carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or substantially visible." So, is an IWB holster in which the entire grip of the pistol remains visible considered concealed or not?

    You may be asking why I care, as I do have a LTCF here in PA, meaning I can carry open, concealed, or any combination thereof. Well, I will traveling back to CO for a little over a month this summer, and despite being a CO resident, my FL ccw permit is not valid there. That means I will be open carrying, and I would prefer to use my IWB holster if it won't lead to any legal trouble.

    Thanks in advance.

    EDIT: I realized after creating this post that these definitions probably vary from state to state. I would still appreciate any insight, however, I am off to read through all of Colorado's CCW laws.
    Last edited by daniel1113; May 7th, 2008 at 11:59 AM.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel1113 View Post
    You may be asking why I care, as I do have a LTCF here in PA, meaning I can carry open, concealed, or any combination thereof. Well, I will traveling back to CO for a little over a month this summer, and despite being a CO resident, my FL ccw permit is not valid there. That means I will be open carrying, and I would prefer to use my IWB holster if it won't lead to any legal trouble.
    Are you saying your driver's license is from CO? I ask because shortly after CO changed its law to only recognize out of state CCW permits from residents of the issuing state (making my UT CCW invalid there), PA and CO signed a reciprocity agreement. I don't know exactly how residence is determined (other than driver's license), but do you have any other credentials that show you "reside" in Bethlehem PA? That would make your PA LTCF valid there.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    There is no definition of "open carry" or "concealed" in PA law.
    SO common definition will be the guideline.

    Concealed would be hidden from view, 100%.
    If the gun is not concealed, it is open.
    An IWB would not be concealed, as half the gun is clearly exposed to view.


    As for CO, you would have to research that states laws specifically.
    They may or may not have a definition in the law itself.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by rmarkob View Post
    Are you saying your driver's license is from CO? I ask because shortly after CO changed its law to only recognize out of state CCW permits from residents of the issuing state (making my UT CCW invalid there), PA and CO signed a reciprocity agreement. I don't know exactly how residence is determined (other than driver's license), but do you have any other credentials that show you "reside" in Bethlehem PA? That would make your PA LTCF valid there.
    I have a CO drivers license, but I do not have a PA LTCF. When I came to PA, I got an FL non-resident permit as it was accepted in both CO and PA, the two states where I spend most of my time. Unfortunately, about a year ago, CO changed its laws so that it would only accept permits from residents of the states in which they were issued. Therefore, my FL permit is no longer valid in CO Sorry if I was unclear.

    I've been searching the CO laws/statutes regarding concealed carry, but the distinction between concealed and open is never really made.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel1113 View Post

    I've been searching the CO laws/statutes regarding concealed carry, but the distinction between concealed and open is never really made.
    There is no distinction needed. Even if the statutes do not define "concealed" the meaning of concealed is common.

    If the statute only prohibits "concealed carry", then it does not prohibit open carry (IE: not concealed)

    You should check on opencarry.org for info on CO open carry laws.
    In addition to their summaries for states, you can browse/post in the forum for responses from CO residents.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    There is no distinction needed. Even if the statutes do not define "concealed" the meaning of concealed is common.

    If the statute only prohibits "concealed carry", then it does not prohibit open carry (IE: not concealed)

    You should check on opencarry.org for info on CO open carry laws.
    In addition to their summaries for states, you can browse/post in the forum for responses from CO residents.
    I will check that out. However, I already know that CO allows both open and concealed carry. The question is whether IWB counts as "partially concealed". I think not, but knowing my luck, I'm probably incorrect.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel1113 View Post
    I will check that out. However, I already know that CO allows both open and concealed carry. The question is whether IWB counts as "partially concealed". I think not, but knowing my luck, I'm probably incorrect.
    Concealed is concealed. Not visible. Once it is not visible it is concealed. There is no "partially concealed" unless it is written into the law that way. Lacking that (written into the law) case law will be the only thing addressing it, and I doubt there will be any.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    Concealed is concealed. Not visible. Once it is not visible it is concealed. There is no "partially concealed" unless it is written into the law that way. Lacking that (written into the law) case law will be the only thing addressing it, and I doubt there will be any.
    Yep, that seems to be the general theme in all the posts I read. Here is a little excerpt from the Arvada, CO police for anyone else that may be curious:

    "All firearms must be carried in such a manner so as to be completely concealed from the view of another. Any firearm carried in such a manner as to be visible in whole or in part and for any length of time to another shall be deemed to be open or openly carried."

    Thanks for the help, guys.

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    PS: All that said in my previous post, your concern IS a valid one. I just don't think your going to find an "answer" more to your satisfaction than what had been discussed right here.

    If that lack of definitive answer is a concern then just get an OWB holster and the problem goes away

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    Default Re: IWB Open Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by daniel1113 View Post
    Yep, that seems to be the general theme in all the posts I read. Here is a little excerpt from the Arvada, CO police for anyone else that may be curious:

    "All firearms must be carried in such a manner so as to be completely concealed from the view of another. Any firearm carried in such a manner as to be visible in whole or in part and for any length of time to another shall be deemed to be open or openly carried."

    Thanks for the help, guys.

    That's a better "answer" than I thought you would get

    Have fun on your trip

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