Bad experience applying for LTCF in Levittown

**JTQ911** · August 19th, 2013, 07:40 PM

Background info.

I moved to PA from NJ last fall. Grew up around guns, father was police officer, have taken multiple classes..PA was heaven. Went to Doylestown one morning and had my LTCF in less than 20 minutes!

I've been talking to my girlfriend for months about getting her LTCF. She's been practicing and she's good, but it was more of preparing herself mentally, learning the laws, etc.

She finally goes to Levittown and hands in the application. She is rudely given back the paperwork and said she needs to fill in the employer information. My gf apologizes and thought it was for if it was going to be used at work. She then is given attitude and is told that she can't use me as a reference since we live at the same residence. My gf asks that they call Doylestown and this is confirmed by Doylestown. The lady then says my gf doesn't have another reference (she did) and its over.

At this point, my gf gives up and leaves. The woman had already began processing, so this is going to go in as a "canceled" permit request.

1) Was the information about needing a reference from different address correct?
2) Do you "legally" have to put in employer information
3) How would you respond? Follow up with the Sherriff?

Thanks

**stabile007** · August 19th, 2013, 07:46 PM

I would at least follow-up with the Sheriff's office and inform them that you were never allowed to complete or correct the application before the lady made a decision for you. He has to sign off on it anyways so it isn't like she could make a decision on it anyhow. As for your other two questions I will leave it to better informed people than myself however the only restriction I know of is that it can't be a family member.

**JTQ911** · August 19th, 2013, 07:50 PM

Not a family member was my understanding as well. I double checked, that's all I see on the permit. I will try to see if I can find/quote the law to be sure.

**HiredGoon** · August 19th, 2013, 08:50 PM

Here's how it is on the application:

FAMILY MEMBERS is pretty vague and it is not clarified anywhere in the statutes, that I am aware of.

**twency** · August 19th, 2013, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

Here's how it is on the application:

FAMILY MEMBERS is pretty vague and it is not clarified anywhere in the statutes, that I am aware of.

It's not. The entirety of the references request is non-statutory. It's arguably legitimate as an exercise of the PSP's authority to prescribe the form and include provisions to ensure compliance, but it's not explicitly called-for by statute.

Seems to me that an unrelated person who happens to live at the same address is not a family member, but there's nothing specific to the LTCF app which defines "family members".

**ccphilly1984** · August 20th, 2013, 05:43 AM

Please note. Referances do not have to be bucks county residents (or pa residents for that matter). My fist ltcf app i had a delco resident and a hamilton, nj resident as refs.

Employment they will not call your employer. If unemployed, ask.

**marketermac** · August 20th, 2013, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by twency

It's not. The entirety of the references request is non-statutory. It's arguably legitimate as an exercise of the PSP's authority to prescribe the form and include provisions to ensure compliance, but it's not explicitly called-for by statute.

Seems to me that an unrelated person who happens to live at the same address is not a family member, but there's nothing specific to the LTCF app which defines "family members".

I don't have any legal standing other than my experience, but in Lehigh County I used my roommate as one of my references (obviously same address) with zero issues. My LTCF came a few weeks later.

**Duece McCracken** · August 30th, 2013, 05:55 PM

Levittown also gave me issues using my roomate as a reference, i just put in another reference. The application must be completed in full, so employer info is necessary. Even if unemployed.

**Curmudgeon** · August 30th, 2013, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Duece McCracken

Levittown also gave me issues using my roomate as a reference, i just put in another reference. The application must be completed in full, so employer info is necessary. Even if unemployed.

I put "N/A" under employer, "N/A" counts as a completed field so, no, employer info isn't necessary. You are correct that it is just about always a bad idea to leave areas blank in .gov forms.

**Bang** · October 4th, 2013, 12:02 PM

Co-habitation raises some interesting issues. Committed unmarrieds producing a child/children are certainly a family on one level, not a family on another. For example, marrieds can pass handguns between themselves sans FFL, but I'll bet unmarrieds can not. Yet the law says parent to child and child to parent with no reference to married/unmarried.