Judge at District Court in Warminster, Bucks County says only cops can check weapons

[gbrown221]

I phoned the warminster PA, bucks county court today to find out the procedure for checking my weapon prior to a Cival matter hearing in which I am the plaintiff. The court clerk was perplexed and stated she would ask the Judge.

The Judge phoned me back and states that no firearms are allowed. He referenced the sign that is posted in the parking lot of the entrance way.

He did acknowledge having gun lockers but informed me their only for law enforcement. He then proceeded to ask me what my ocupation was and why I felt a need to bring a weapon to court. He then inquired where I lived. I informed him Philadelphia. He proceeded to state "well warminster is not Philly". I can assure your safety while visiting Bucks County. He further asked me to leave my weapon at home or in the car during court. I informed him that leaving my weapon in my car would not be a responsible choice and subject to be being stolen. I even informed him that the law says the lockers are to be made available to citizens also not just law enforcement.

What are my options?

Regards

Greg

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

Stick to your guns! Ya done well.

Is this the same judge who will preside your case?

If so.......ya may choose to reconsider (thought I agree that's f'd up and wrong)

[gbrown221]

It will be the same Judge. I am not a lawyer and don't know how else to inform him that their is a statute protecting us law abiding citizens who may have to do business in any court in PA.

Greg

[WitsBusa]

Yep.. just one judge in each of those suburban magisterial districts. He knows your name already, I assume, and it will ring a bell when you case comes before the judge. Hopefully you were respectful on the phone and not condescending. I'd also say suck it up, even if you choose to bring the matter to the attention of anyone, until after your case is heard.

[s.vermeire]

§913. Possession of Firearm or Other Dangerous Weapon in Court Facility.

(a) Offense defined.—A person commits an offense if he:

(1) knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or

(2) knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime.

(b) Grading.—

(1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), an offense under subsection (a)(1) is a misdemeanor of the third degree.

(2) An offense under subsection (a)(2) is a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(3) An offense under subsection (a)(1) is a summary offense if the person was carrying a firearm under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) or 6109 (relating to licenses) and failed to check the firearm under subsection (e) prior to entering the court facility.

(c) Exceptions.—Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) The lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth or a political subdivision who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law.

(2) The lawful performance of official duties by a court official.

(3) The carrying of rifles and shotguns by instructors and participants in a course of instruction provided by the Pennsyl*vania Game Commission under 34 Pa. C.S. §2704 (relating to eligibility for license).

(4) Associations of veteran soldiers and their auxiliaries or members of organized armed forces of the United States or the Commonwealth, including reserve components, when engaged in the performance of ceremonial duties with county approval.

(5) The carrying of a dangerous weapon or firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper by an attorney who seeks to employ the dangerous weapon or firearm as an exhibit or as a demonstration and who possesses written authorization from the court to bring the dangerous weapon or firearm into the court facility. (Added by L.1995, Act 66(2), eff. 11/22/95.)

(d) Posting of notice.—Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a)(1) with respect to a court facility if the notice was not so posted at each public entrance to the courthouse or other building containing a court facility anti at the court facility unless the person had actual notice of the provisions of subsection (a).

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)

(f) Definitions.—As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

“Court facility.” The courtroom of a court of record; a courtroom of a community court; the courtroom of a district justice; a courtroom of the Philadelphia Municipal Court; a courtroom of the Pittsburgh Magistrates Court; a courtroom of the Traffic Court of Philadelphia; judge’s chambers; witness rooms; jury deliberation rooms; attorney conference rooms; prisoner holding cells; offices of court clerks, the district attorney, the sheriff and probation and parole officers; and any adjoining corridors.

“Dangerous weapon.” A bomb, grenade, blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife (the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism or otherwise) or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

“Firearm.” Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas. The term does not include any device designed or used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammuni*tion.

bold is mine

This is from the UFA. I would contact the sheriff's office to inquire about where the lockers are so you can enter at the closest entrance. I'm not positive, but I believe that his office is responsible for the security of the building. The judge is obviously uninformed concerning the UFA after your hearing would be a good candidate for education.

[gbrown221]

It is a cival matter an I am the plaintiff so I am not too worried about the judge ruling poorly in my favor. I would hope he would not be petty and have some ethics on the bench when he heres my case. I did provide him with the statute when he phoned back again. He indicated having to call some type of superior judge. I do not recall the name of the individual he referenced. He basically stated having to speak with the judge that supervises him. he further reiterated that it would be much easier if I could just leave my weapon at home and assured me persoanlly I would be safe while visiting bucks county; but if I insisted he would look into the matter but still believes only LEO can use the lockers and the sign outside the courhouse overides citizens checking weapons. I was polite and courteous the entire time. We will see what his reply is.

Greg

[CommonHighrise]

FWIW- Berks Co. courthouse in Reading has weapons lockers readily available to all citizens. Found out when I accidentally left my knife clipped into my pocket when I had to run in. Thought Id have to walk back out to my car, but the guard said it was no problem and checked it for me. Since then, Ill carry to the courthouse, though my reccomendation is to use a clip-style holster if you have it. Easier/safer to just unclip the whole lot and hand it over.

[gnbrotz]

This is why I won't ask before going. I'll have the printed statute with me if I think they're may be any question.

Another thing that seems to often be overlooked: Not only does the law require them to provide storage, it requires them to post notice of the availability of this storage. I've seen the details of (a) posted, but I have yet to see such notice of (e) posted, even at venues that routinely utilize the mandated storage boxes.

From §913:

(d) Posting of notice.—Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a)(1) with respect to a court facility if the notice was not so posted at each public entrance to the courthouse or other building containing a court facility anti at the court facility unless the person had actual notice of the provisions of subsection (a).

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)

[s.vermeire]

This is why I won't ask before going. I'll have the printed statute with me if I think they're may be any question.

Another thing that seems to often be overlooked: Not only does the law require them to provide storage, it requires them to post notice of the availability of this storage. I've seen the details of (a) posted, but I have yet to see such notice of (e) posted, even at venues that routinely utilize the mandated storage boxes.

From §913:

Very good point. I know I've seen a sign at my courthouse saying storage is available, but it wasn't at the entrance, it was in a hallway between offices. Come to think of it I don't think I've seen any signs at the entrance at all. Might have to drop off my renewal application rather than mail it just to see. If there is a sign at the main entrance, I'm sure there won't be one at the courtroom door. My county is so poor they only unlock one entrance to the courthouse that way they don't have to man all the doors, only that one.

[policemedic]

Dan Finello is the district judge you will be going in front of.

Personally, I preferred it when the title was district justice, as it distinguished them from real judges with real legal educations. Common Pleas Court Judges are lawyers, with proven records, who actually know the law.

Dan Finello doesn't know the law simply because he isn't a lawyer. However, he is probably very good at keeping track of equipment and can help you out with title insurance. He spent 18 years working as the Capital Equipment Coordinator for Bucks County prior to being appointed to his current position by Fast Eddie.

Much like our esteemed Bail Commissioners and Traffic Court Judges in Philadelphia, there is no requirement for legal education to sit in Finello's position. Once appointed/elected, a minimal course on the minor judiciary combined with negligible continuing education classes is all that is required.

That's why he didn't know the law; that's why he probably doesn't know where to find the UFA in the Crimes Code; that's why the minor judiciary needs an enema.