Help/Thoughts on M1a accuracy

[thejeanmachine16]

Starting off I know there is so many variables that it may be hard to diagnose this problem but I'll try and give as much info as possible.

For starters what accuracy should I be expecting out of my M1A( loaded model NM barrel etc) , maybe I am expecting too much.

I made a 300 yard range at my house and it seems like my rifle is grouping all over. Now I'm the first one to blame the shooter for poor shooting, and while I admit I'm newer to shooting at this range I was shooting off of a damn sturdy rest and using great optics. Also I had an experienced friend shoot the rifle as well and was getting the same results. No grouping just random shots all over.
I then shot my friends rifle and was shooting very accurately with it , so I know I can shoot at that range.

As for ammo I was shooting surplus for the most part so I'm sure you might consider that part of the problem. BUT I started shooting Hornaday match ammo and was getting the same results.


So not really sure what the problem is. I doubled checked to make sure the base and rings were tight, which they were. Changed ammo, different shooters, so is it the rifle ? Something I'm missing ? Any input would be appreciated.

Attached is one of the targets with a pretty good sample shot of what the rifle was doing.

[625]

How big is that target? How far away were you shooting? The full 300 yards? I would try to shoot at around 50 yards with the iron sights just to take the scope and mount out of the equation. The factory sights are excellent on these rifles, so you should be able to get a decent group.

Also, here is a great article on getting better groups with these guns for not a ton of $.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

[thejeanmachine16]

The target is 12X12 so each one of those squares is an inch. It was 295 yards to be exact, I'll call it 300 .

Thanks for the link !

[vanwhyjr]

That should be shooting way tighter groups. I had a NM with a floated Kreiger barrel, trigger work and everything. It shot subminute. I would expect at least full minute to minute and a half out of it. If you want I could recommend a great service rifle smith. He could go over it for you.
Vanwhyjr

[flygrimm]

Take the scope out of the equation by using the irons. Check the scope mounting points and the security of the stripper clip guide (do you have the mount that attaches just to the receiver or the one that also attaches to the stripper clip guide?) Use a different scope. Check bedding. Don't forget to check the security of the flash suppressor.

Stuart

[bamboomaster]

Thanks for posting the target for it is easier to determine what caused the problem. Among the issues that can occur, there are two that I've narrowed down for your possible consideration:

Possible Issue #1: The Sun will flip its magnetic field soon

"The sun is gearing up for a major solar flip, NASA says.

In an event that occurs once every 11 years, the magnetic field of the sun will change its polarity in a matter of months, according new observations by NASA-supported observatories."

Here's the link: http://www.space.com/22271-sun-magnetic-field-flip.html I found it on the Internet, so it must be true!

So if your mil-surp bullets are attracted to a magnet, and the range in your backyard may unfortunately also have the unique distinction of also being the epicenter of the Universe, you're going to be in deep kimchi for awhile. That epicenter has the propensity to amply not only solar (our Sun) magnetic anomalies but also other stellar events throughout the Universe.

Sometimes, these anomalies can appear to be manipulated by the Gods (aka puppetmasters) at times, just for their whimsical entertainment:

• Your buddy shoots his rifle - life is good!
• You shoot your buddies rifle - life is good!
• You shoot your rifle - life sucks...
• Your buddy shoots your rifle - why am I hanging with this looser?

And in a round-about way, that's one possible explanation for your shot group dispersion at 300 yds. If you doubt the explanation, just run that by your shooting buddies!

OK, now that I've removed my tinfoil hat, here's another possible explanation. And BTW, great recommendations from folks who suggested removing the scope and just working with the rifle. I assumed the OP already did the iron sights dance even though I'm willing to concede that ASSUMING anything can make an ass out of you and me (ASSUME: ASS-U-ME).


Possible Issue #2: Your scope/screws need adjusting

While there is a litany of issues that can occur with glass (even really expensive glass), may I suggest you possibly consider one or more of the following?

1. Read that instruction booklet that came with your scope. If you do, Catholics everywhere will make the sign of the cross at the mention of your name and one day, you may be cannonized as the first male who ever read an instruction manual. Hey, the worst that can happen is that you may find out what your problem is - not all your problems, just the one where shot dispersion may be concerned. The best that can happen is nearly as good as you owning the winning PowerBall lottery ticket - zeroing your scope, tight groups - aka SAINTHOOD!

2. Look specifically for recommended torque inch-pounds for securing the scope mount to the rail and the same for securing the scope to the rings. They may be different torques. Don't even think of using "one grunt tight" on the rings and "two grunt tight on the mount". If you purchased your scope and rings from different folks, then drill a bit deeper (NO! NOT INTO YOUR RECEIVER - just a phone call) and find out what they recommend. And then ask them where it's printed just so you have back-up. And then re-mount your scope mount and your glass to the recommend torque.

You'll need a Fat Wrench for that: http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.r...p&ved=0CDUQsxg

3. Umm, if you have a Vortex Razor 5x20 HD, they may have had a few issues with some of the older scopes where the elevation and windage knobs were concerned. A few shots of match grade ammo by different manufacturers and the groups would look like yours. After 100 rounds just to zero a scope, the groups across eight targets at 100 yards would still look like yours. So the screws apparently became loosened and nothing would hold. On really expensive glass. Whether they put in new pointy screws or added a version of locktite, that seemed to fix the problem.

4. While the idea of just tapping on the adjustment knobs after you make the adjustments may work for a lesser scope, I think you mentioned you had some really good glass. Just about everybody here has something to say about really good glass. There's really good glass at $60, really good glass at $180, really good glass at $450, etc. all the way to really good glass at $3,750. Whatever really good glass means to you, tapping on stuff to make it work better is really no solution at all. Sending back a defective scope is a solution. Especially since many of the better manufacturers have lifetime warranties.

5. When zeroing a scope, you're just borrowing trouble if you don't take the time to do so at a 25 yd range. It shouldn't take more than 3 rounds to zero a scope, even though some may prefer a mag dump. If you skip the 25 yd range, 100 rounds may not be enough. And if you're having problems with group size at that distance, well, at 300 yds, the magnetic anomalies will surely get to you!

Hope this has been helpful. If it hasn't been helpful, I hope that it's been sufficiently entertaining for you to just chill and follow up on some of the other suggestions by really well-intentioned PAFOA members.

Hey, you wouldn't be able to tell us if Elvis is still around, eh?

[Ar180shooter]

Who installed the scope/mount? If it was you, I'd take it to someone who knows these rifles well. My thoughts are that there is something loose somewhere. If this doesn't improve things, the scope may have a defect. Beyond that, you want to check things like head-space and that the barrel is properly threaded to the receiver.

IMO the rifle should be shooting 2MOA or less, and your target shows around 3MOA.

[thejeanmachine16]

I guess my next step is , as suggested , remove the scope and mount and see how the rifle groups.

My only concern with this, and why I haven't done it before is the mount is the style that also is connected to the stripper clip guide. Or should I say where the stripper clip guide was. I also used the recommended fasting adhesive when attaching the mount so I'm not sure how easily the mount could be removed

[spartakis252]

My 1st question is what is "great optics"? And what is a "damn sturdy rest"? And is everything else on the rifle tight?

Not trying to be a dick but if you are using a low quality scope, that is your first problem. I know some might consider a Walmart scope to be great and those work for certain situations but for what you are trying to do it's junk.

The reason I ask about the rest is because it could be affecting your barrel and you might not realize it. Have you tried not resting or using a different rest?

Outside of that, are you shooting prone, sitting, or standing? Since you are using a rest, where is your support hand? Is your breathing under control? Are you flinching?

Again I'm not trying to be a dick or sound like a know it all. I'm simply trying to make sure the problem isn't something you are doing(or who ever else shot it).

[blottermachine]

bad optic, loose OR cracked flash hider, loose piston nut?