Transporting handguns in PA - Overnight in hotel

[kwc]

I'm a PA resident stationed on active military orders in IL. Due to inability to make it back to PA very often, I haven't been able to apply for a LTCF yet (in-person appearance required) but will do so on my next visit. I do have a FL non-resident CCW license.

I've read the sticky on interstate transportation of firearms and the "carry" information from the PA law, posted here:

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state...nsylvania.aspx

I realize only a lawyer can fully answer this question, but was curious to hear the thoughts of this audience. If I'm traveling to my parent's house in PA (listed as my official residence) with handguns locked in the trunk per federal requirements, and I stop for the night in a hotel, am I legal? Must I leave them in the car overnight?

I *think* this exception would apply:

"...or in moving from one place of abode or business to another, or from one’s home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back"

Thank you,
Kwc

[BimmerJon]

In regards to FOPA, not sure if that will cover any stops in between, I'd have to look it up.

If you make it to PA.. your FL CCW does cover you to carry a firearm in a vehicle (even loaded).

Recently, our AG killed reciprocity with FL, so its debatable if the FL CCW will cover you anymore to CC while on foot. You can OC without any permit though (stay out of Philly though)

[donm]

Your Florida license will cover you in Ohio and Indiana (remember, Ohio is a "must inform" state). And even without it, I don't think you need FOPA protection in those states -- they have no law against transporting in a vehicle provided it's unloaded, not readily accessible, and in a case. It's often assumed around here that other states restrict unlicensed transport of handguns like PA -- not true in most cases.

[ungawa]

In regards to FOPA, not sure if that will cover any stops in between, I'd have to look it up.

If you make it to PA.. your FL CCW does cover you to carry a firearm in a vehicle (even loaded).

Recently, our AG killed reciprocity with FL, so its debatable if the FL CCW will cover you anymore to CC while on foot. You can OC without any permit though (stay out of Philly though)

Bimmer is correct. You can carry loaded in your car or open carry outside your car in PA on your FL license (or carry license from any state). Stay out of Philly since you don't have a reciprocal license.

Title 18



§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.



(a) Offense defined.--

* (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
* (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
*

* (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

* (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
* (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
* (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
* (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
* (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
* (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
* (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
* (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
* (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
* (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
* (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
* (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
* (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
* (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
* (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
* (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
* (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
* (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).
*

I would keep the law in my car with that part highlighted

You are also not covered under the federal Gun Free School Zones Act since you don't have a PA LTCF. However, I THINK unintentional driving by a school is not illegal under that law, and it seems it is rarely enforced (ever?) outside some other crime. I would personally just avoid them if I see them.

[GonzoGeezer]

IANAL.

I assume you will be overnighting in IN or OH, both of which have reciprocity with FL. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/for...rocitylist.pdf so that should cover you for that part of your trip. I also assume you will do what I do, and never stop in IL for anything except gas until they sort out their gun law issues.

I can't speak to IL but your permit should cover you in those two states and as I understand it in PA, as in a lot of other states, a motel room you rent becomes your residence for the duration of the rental so you may have your guns with you in the room.

[kwc]

Thanks to all for the advice! Logic seems sound -- agree I should be covered with the handguns in the car, even if I stop. I had thought the cancellation of PA's FL reciprocity agreement would have had an impact on carry within a vehicle, but that appears to be defined separately from codification in the law as cited above.

An interesting nuance while in Illinois: As a PA resident, with a PA LTCF, under the new CCW law it looks as though I can carry concealed in a car within Illinois without an IL permit. However, I have to have a resident permit for my home state--the FL non-resident permit won't cover me there.

Thanks again,
Kwc

[Anthony1911]

Is your base in IL your permanent duty station? Or are you TDY there?

[kwc]

Is your base in IL your permanent duty station? Or are you TDY there?

It is my assigned base--I've been here for 2 years now (and counting).

[Greywolf]

I believe your permanent duty station is considered to be your state of residence for purposes pertaining to firearms.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-...tate-residency

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

[kwc]

Thank you, Greywolf. It appears the residency definition applies, in this context, to purchasing and transferring handguns.

Since I'm assigned in IL, I suspect an FFL would still sell me a handgun in PA (based on my driver's license having a PA address) but it would not be legal for either the dealer or for me to participate in such a transaction.

As for CCW licenses and related issues, since the states and not the ATF regulates those, this definition presumably would not apply.

Very interesting... Thanks again.

Kwc