1911 carry. Question about down hammer

[PAMedic=F|A=]

After a lot of reading it seems that everyone on the 1911 forums feels you should carry in condition one. It also seems they have more money then the Sha of Iran.

IE. a round in the chamber, hammer back, safety on.
The safety of course can no be engaged unless the hammer is back; and it is a single action pistol.

The gun does have a half cock feature.

Someone on this forum pointed out that carrying a 1911 with hammer down & a round in the chamber was dangerous. They did not state why.

Could the weapon discharge if dropped with a chambered round & the hammer down?
Or is there some other reason carrying hammer down would be dangerous?

[sprrdhawk44]

If it's a series 70 gun, bumping the hammer could cause a discharge. Most of my problem with it, though, is that you have to lower the hammer on a loaded round in order to carry hammer-down. This is dangerous, because if the hammer slips while lowering it you will have a boom.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Thanks for the super fast response. I'd never even considered the ladder point.
I do carry condition 1.

It seemed like that was possible with mine - Citadel Officers model.
Is there a good source for info on the different models of 1911? Seems like they are nearly as bad as ARs.

Edit / can someone rep ... Seems I can't.

[sprrdhawk44]

http://forums.1911forum.com/index.php

Anything you could ever want to know about the 1911.

[eyecanshoot]

Edit / can someone rep ... Seems I can't.

Tried to get him but wont let me either.

[hss.strat]

As Sprrdhawk said, in my eyes lowering the hammer on a hot round is just begging to pop one off into your living room floor. Besides the danger I don't understand the point. With a round chambered/hammer down you'll have to either rack it (and throw a live round onto the ground) OR cock the hammer back with your thumb which is not as quick and easy under stress as the movies make it look. If I'm not mistaken the Citadel guns are 70 series which means no firing pin block.

The half cock notch is only there as a safety measure. In case the hammer is unintentionally released the half cock notch is there to stop the hammer before it strikes the firing pin. It's not advisable to leave it the gun in that position because it can wear down the notch and serves no purpose. ( http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=229910 ).

[Noah_Zark]

I repped sprrdhawk44 for you.

If it's a series 70 gun, bumping the hammer could cause a discharge. Most of my problem with it, though, is that you have to lower the hammer on a loaded round in order to carry hammer-down. This is dangerous, because if the hammer slips while lowering it you will have a boom.

'Hawk's correct. Without a FP block, a 1911 with a chambered round and the hammer down could fire under the right conditions if the weapon were to be struck or dropped just the right way. Despite the firing pin having a return spring, it is still subject to inertia, and if the 1911 is dropped or struck with the hammer down it could go off.

Thousands of Glock (and XD and M&P pistol) owners don't seem to mind carrying their weapon with a round in the chamber and the striker cocked. Of course, there's a FP block that's cammed out of the way when the trigger is pulled. But the only thing keeping the Glock form going off is the segmented trigger stop preventing the trigger from being pulled. In the case of a 1911, the engaged safety is blocking the hammer and the grip safety effectively prevents the trigger from actuating the sear. On a "Series 80" type 1911 with FP block, there not a lot of difference from a safety perspective between the Series 80 1911 being chambered, cocked and locked and a Glock that's chambered, cocked and nothing touching the trigger.

IMO, it's a psychological thing with the exposed hammer being cocked. It's "unnatural" and thus gives the perception of not being safe to the eye and the mind. Glocks, M&P pistols, and XDs have enclosed strikers -- out of sight, out of mind -- and when cocked they don't look as "unsafe" as a cocked exposed-hammer pistol.

I frequently carry a 1911, and have for years -- no, decades. I carry a 1911 either chambered, cocked, and locked, or (sometimes) chamber empty and hammer down. I sort of "grew up" when the Israeli Carry thing was catching on in the late 70s and early 80s, and trained and practiced the "Rack while drawing-Point-Shoot" drill to good effectiveness.

Since my current carry 1911s contain FP blocks, I'm more frequently carrying cocked and locked, given the added safety of the FP being prevented from inertia impacting the chambered round's primer if dropped.

YMMV.

Noah

[PAMedic=F|A=]

TY to everyone for the great info. Knew I would quickly get definitive answers.

Noah_Zark I agree on perception - first 1911 that came to my home; I asked about the up hammer. It really catches the eye.

[Pilot321]

The half cock notch is only there as a safety measure. In case the hammer is unintentionally released the half cock notch is there to stop the hammer before it strikes the firing pin. It's not advisable to leave it the gun in that position because it can wear down the notch and serves no purpose. ( http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=229910 ).

Well, I extracted this from the thread you posted, and totally agree. The half cock notch IS a safety, and the 1911 can be safely carried at half cock.

Take off your grip safety, take off the thumb safety.
With the hammer at the halfcock position, pull the trigger. Notice the sear is trapped by the half cock notch. Check the ordinance hammer blue prints, the sear is fully trapped. Not like some after market interpretations of JMB's design. No bang, not even a whimper.

In fact drop a 1911 while in the half cock position. It will break before it fires.

What more is required of a safety?

[Jhaydeno]

Noah's correct about the older 70 series firing pin, and some manufacturers have taken note. Ruger SR1911's were designed with the older series 70 guts, but they specifically use an extremely lightweight firing pin. I'm told no matter how hard you strike the weapon you can't gain enough inertia in the firing pin to fire a chambered round.