.410 as a home defense shotgun

[mpan72]

If .410 will make a person keep something in the home for self defense I say go for it. I have a 12 ga and a .38 special for hd but that is just me. I have done some research on the .410 round and I think it is viable for hd out of a shotgun (with good ammo).

[harold63]

The '000' buck is going out of an 18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel @1200 FPS (listed velocity)

The gel test shows 15-18 inches of penetration or over with plain lead,think about how much tougher the copper washed stuff is going to be on target.

Even with heavy clothing that speaks volumes for the smack that stuff is going to give the target.

Agreed. I assure you, I'm not a person who discredits the round. It will kill you. It will break (shatter)bones if not shot in a vital organ area. It will definitely kill a hog. This I know by experience.

[Pfletch83]

Agreed. I assure you, I'm not a person who discredits the round. It will kill you. It will break (shatter)bones if not shot in a vital organ area. It will definitely kill a hog. This I know by experience.

Understood...I wasn't trying to sound like a jerk (and in case I did,sorry about that),I was just saying that the copper washed stuff should hold up better.

[IHDiesel73L]

Or underarmed. On a person, inside of 10 yards, .410 can be lethal. If the intruder is not wearing heavy clothing or armor of any kind, one chest shot can kill. I too would rather have a 12 guage, but a .410 will work for me if it is what I have.

This brings up an interesting question-ballistic gelatin tests are great, but what about heavy clothing? Years ago my grandfather got peppered accidentally while upland hunting and luckily it was very cold so his heavy clothing stopped the low brass bird shot. Would it be at all accurate if you made up a batch of gelatin and wrapped it in an undershirt, sweatshirt, and saw an old Carhartt coat and tested the ammo on that rather than just gelatin?

[harold63]

This brings up an interesting question-ballistic gelatin tests are great, but what about heavy clothing? Years ago my grandfather got peppered accidentally while upland hunting and luckily it was very cold so his heavy clothing stopped the low brass bird shot. Would it be at all accurate if you made up a batch of gelatin and wrapped it in an undershirt, sweatshirt, and saw an old Carhartt coat and tested the ammo on that rather than just gelatin?

That would be a fair test and they are probably out there. A thick, heavy, leather jacket could slow a shot of .410 buckshot enough to keep from being lethal. It is also the kind of material that will flatten copper coated shot, as well, though not as much. Steel shot is another story. The thing with 12ga is there are so many more pellets going into the same area if it is a close shot, therefore more energy. Even if a jacket stopped all the 12ga. shot, it is not going to stop the "thump", and that is what I like least about the .410; less "thump" effect. I am only speaking on of what I can draw out this thing called a brain, which with me, at times, can be called a space taker upper, so I very well may be wrong. I've seen what .410 buck will do to cattle and hogs, so I know it is lethal on humans if they have little protection. As some have said, as well, 12 and 20ga, even, can be a handful for some. .410 may be just the amount some people can shoot without hurting their shoulder and it is way, way better than throwing a coffee cup at a burglar. JMHO.

[harold63]

Understood...I wasn't trying to sound like a jerk (and in case I did,sorry about that),I was just saying that the copper washed stuff should hold up better.

It's all good, no offense taken.

[mikenac]

See this load:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/N.../pdx1-410.aspx

With the Judge and the Governor gaining popularity, companies are starting to make nice SD loads for .410.

[leplat]

Personally I would love someone to test the flechette shells. Or Bolo rounds. Wondering what they would do...

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/_410.html

[IHDiesel73L]

Personally I would love someone to test the flechette shells. Or Bolo rounds. Wondering what they would do...

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/_410.html

None of the stuff on that page says anything about not being legal for sale in NJ-seems too good to be true though The dragon's breath rounds would be fun to play with.

[Asmodeus6]

That would be a fair test and they are probably out there. A thick, heavy, leather jacket could slow a shot of .410 buckshot enough to keep from being lethal. It is also the kind of material that will flatten copper coated shot, as well, though not as much. Steel shot is another story. The thing with 12ga is there are so many more pellets going into the same area if it is a close shot, therefore more energy. Even if a jacket stopped all the 12ga. shot, it is not going to stop the "thump", and that is what I like least about the .410; less "thump" effect. I am only speaking on of what I can draw out this thing called a brain, which with me, at times, can be called a space taker upper, so I very well may be wrong. I've seen what .410 buck will do to cattle and hogs, so I know it is lethal on humans if they have little protection. As some have said, as well, 12 and 20ga, even, can be a handful for some. .410 may be just the amount some people can shoot without hurting their shoulder and it is way, way better than throwing a coffee cup at a burglar. JMHO.

I realize that buckshot in general is both a poor penetrator, and an over penetrator in other substances. Leather jackets, and denim - are not known to stop buckshot. Birdshot, perhaps. But considering most buck shot will penetrate MULTIPLE interior walls before stopping. I have ZERO fear .410 out of a shotgun will go through anything but body armor as far as clothing is concerned.

You have to treat buckshot like any other projectile moving at a given velocity with a slight decrease in penetration due to the projectile being a lead ball with no bullet shape. (When shooting at hard substances)

Buckshot will go through a leather jacket. Even with a bulk of clothes underneath.

Even out of a .410 (shotgun)

You have a .33 caliber ball moving at 1200fps. Given HD distances let's say - 1100 FPS. Each ball is 54gr. This "loosely" attributes it's ballistic equivalent to .32acp under 35yds. LOOSELY. Will 32acp go through a leather jacket? Damn right it will. Here's some ballistic data on .32acp

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm

15" of penetration give or take. Let's go on the softest side and say 10-11".

It's going through leather. It's going through a South Pole puffy coat, your shirt, your rib cage, and whatever else it feels like smashing into pulp. A deer's hide is probably way more dense than a leather jacket.




And to the bit about not everyone being able to use a 12 gauge, I understand. But I've yet to meet someone who can't handle a 20 gauge. I think I first let one of those off at age 11 or 12? Keep in mind I was maybe 5' foot nothing back then. My old lady has NO trouble with the 12 gauge and she is seriously 5'3" 100#. I really think if I was going to step down, my next choice would be the 20 gauge. But if I were to get disabled or seriously couldn't handle a shotgun any more the .410 I would still pick over any hand gun for HD. Mine would have to be an auto loader though. Maybe a Saiga in .410?