.410 as a home defense shotgun

[Valorius]

I've said it before, those Taurus Judges are novelty guns. A joke in fact..

I thought this for a while too, however, there are purpose designed 000 buck loads for the Judge that achieve over 18" penetration in gel. That is no joke, and is entirely lethal.

As far as the .410/45, as you pointed out, the derringers have been around for ages...so apparently a lot of people were buying them over the years.

Because with the right ammo, they work. Not my cup of tea by any means, but....they do work.

[Pfletch83]

Federal 2 1/2" 4 pellet 000 buck defense rounds penetrate over 18" in gelatin when fired from a Taurus Judge handgun. From a full barreled shotgun, they are far more than adequate, and should prove quite devastating.

Sorry, but you get to tell your friend that you were wrong.

One of these firing the aforementioned load would be mighty nasty:

I'll second that.

(Thought about getting one of those uppers for my AR but went with the mossberg because I'm use to a pumpgun)

[West Chester]

Box O Truth Test the Judge 410 with the new "better" ammo.


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm

First, a round of the Winchester 000 Buck.

The 5 000 buck penetrated into the 4th jug, for 9 to 12 inches penetration.

Notice how they were flattened as they went down the barrel.



Next, the Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 ammo.

There were bbs in the 1st and 2nd jugs, and the discs were in the 2nd and 3rd jug, for a maximum penetration of 6 to 9 inches.



We then tried the Federal 3 inch #4 buck.

It left the wad in the denim.

These pellets made it into the 3rd jug, for a maximum penetration of 6 to 9 inches.



Then the Remington Home Defense 2 ½ inch 00 buck.

There was one pellet in the 2nd jug, 3 pellets in the 3rd jug, and 1 pellet even entered the 5th jug, for a maximum penetration of 12 to 15 inches.

Notice how they were flattened.


Next a 3" slug One made 3 jugs and one made 4 jugs, for a maximum penetration of 12 inches.

Looks like a bust to me. Valorius, where was the ballistic gelatin test with the 410 ??

[Valorius]

He didn't test the Federal 4 pellet 000 buck load. Just do a google for .410 gel tests, you'll get lots of hits.

[West Chester]

Federal 000 Buck 2 1/2"

http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4989

Average velocity was 846.1 FPS giving 390 ft-lbs of energy from a 3" judge barrel

Basically 4 - 61gr projectiles in .36 diameter

For the size of the firearm there are a lot of other hard hitting, more effective calibers available in my opinion.

[Valorius]

4x .36 caliber balls is akin to shooting someone with 4 .380 FMJ bullets with every pull of the trigger. Not exactly something any of us would want to get hit with, i'm sure.

But i do agree that in a defensive pistol, the Judge is not what i'm looking for either.

I like the .410 a whole lot better out of an 18" or greater barrel.

[Pfletch83]

Let me say now that a Mossberg 50455 with a buttstock will be more effective with the same '000' load used in the judge.

[Valorius]

Much, much more effective.

[IHDiesel73L]

Ok if you think 12 gauge is the way to go I say try one thing. Take all your clothes off and turn off all the lights. The remove your ear protection, because for home defense situation you would be firing this gun in this condition. Then inside a closed space pull off one round! What happens next is you are deaf and blind!!

A 410 in close closed situations could not only be a good option but could be a better option. A 12 gauge inside a closed space will make your ears bleed with no ear protection. A 410 not so much...

This was brought up on another forum where the subject of .410s for home defense was brought up. I was going to try it at the range (lights out, no ear protection-I'll leave my clothes on so I don't scare anyone away ) just to see what 12 gauge 00 buck is like in that situation. I've shot deer exactly 1/2 hour before sunset and there's some flash, but it doesn't compare to being indoors in near complete darkness. I guess there's also the argument that if your shot placement was right (and the ammo was adequate) that you need not worry about temporary blindness/deafness, but what if it wasn't? What if there's more than one of them? I'm going to give this some serious thought because my other concern is my wife's ability to hand the gun as well. I have an old break action .410 with a hammer but I'm not stashing that under the bed-can anyone recommend a good home defense style pump .410? Basically I'm looking for a bare bones pump with an 18" barrel. I was reading somewhere else that the Browning .410s are built on the 20 gauge platform so they don't feel like toys and have some heft to them. Browning's website is a #$%@* to navigate though-not like a picture can give you that great of an idea anyway.

These look interesting:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=767939

[Steve_NEPhila]

This was brought up on another forum where the subject of .410s for home defense was brought up. I was going to try it at the range (lights out, no ear protection-I'll leave my clothes on so I don't scare anyone away ) just to see what 12 gauge 00 buck is like in that situation. I've shot deer exactly 1/2 hour before sunset and there's some flash, but it doesn't compare to being indoors in near complete darkness. I guess there's also the argument that if your shot placement was right (and the ammo was adequate) that you need not worry about temporary blindness/deafness, but what if it wasn't? What if there's more than one of them? I'm going to give this some serious thought because my other concern is my wife's ability to hand the gun as well. I have an old break action .410 with a hammer but I'm not stashing that under the bed-can anyone recommend a good home defense style pump .410? Basically I'm looking for a bare bones pump with an 18" barrel. I was reading somewhere else that the Browning .410s are built on the 20 gauge platform so they don't feel like toys and have some heft to them. Browning's website is a #$%@* to navigate though-not like a picture can give you that great of an idea anyway.

These look interesting:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=767939

Sure. The Mossberg 500E HS 410 is a .410 bore pump shotgun that was marketed and sold a number of years ago. There is one on gunbroker for 250 USD right now.

I think you would be better off with a high capacity 9mm handgun, but that is just my opinion. A handgun you can use with one hand, that pump requires two. However, pick what works best for you in your situation... it is for your survival.