question on PA Title 18, Chapter 9, Subsection 912

[MikeC201]

The link is not opening and although I googled it, it was still unclear. Are you able to carry a/open and or b/ concealed on school property K-12 during the summer when school is out to say... a fair that is happening there in the off season?

Edit: I am sorry this is in Pittsburgh, PA.

[Curmudgeon]

The statute says school buildings and school property, it makes no exceptions for school being out of session or closed.


EDIT: The link worked for me:

18 Pa.C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property


(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

[MikeC201]

thank you for the fast reply, I thought I read somewhere when school was out it did not apply. Learning is knowing :-) thanks again.

[sprrdhawk44]

OP, have you read and understand section C there?

[Anthony1911]

18 Pa.C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property


(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

I don't know if you read about the "other lawful purpose", but you could say that carrying at the fair for self defense is a 'lawful purpose', since self-defense is lawful. I forget the exact case, but I believe someone carried to a HS football game, and got charged with weapon on school property and such, but used that as his defense and won. If you feel like fighting it IF you get caught, you could try. It's a hell of a gamble though, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have the funds and time to fight it.

[Statkowski]

The statute says school buildings and school property ...

Not exactly. The statute says, "in the buildings of [or] on the grounds of ... any elementary or secondary ... school ..."

"School property" could be a book warehouse three miles away from the school, or a football/soccer field across the street from the school. And carrying wouldn't be illegal at such places.

[GunLawyer001]

Here's a link to a thread in which our case was discussed, and PAFOA members generously helped to finance a strong defense for a law-abiding adult student of a vo-tech school who had a licensed firearm secured in his car in the school parking lot.

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...age-912-a.html

We won that case, at the Common Pleas Court trial. It's not a precedent (you have to lose the trial and appeal to a higher court to make precedents), but the "other lawful purpose" defense succeeded.

[tl_3237]

I don't know if you read about the "other lawful purpose", but you could say that carrying at the fair for self defense is a 'lawful purpose', since self-defense is lawful. I forget the exact case, but I believe someone carried to a HS football game, and got charged with weapon on school property and such, but used that as his defense and won. If you feel like fighting it IF you get caught, you could try. It's a hell of a gamble though, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have the funds and time to fight it.

He didn't win - he accepted entry into the ARD program in lieu of a trial.

see: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ball-game.html

[.45Kimber1911]

I have a question similar to the original poster. Here in Philadelphia, we have numerous charter schools that are housed in multi-use office buildings. There are other business that operate out of the same building, just on a different floor or subsection of the same floor.

How would the law be interpreted in an instance such as this where the school shares common areas to the building such as entryways, elevators, and hallways, but are not part of the leased space by the school?

[MikeC201]

I may as well go into the story of why I asked the question. There is a fair going on held by Most Holy Name church/school not sure the exact grades but its roughly grade-middle school. Anywho.. I show up at the fair Open carry and two Security guards come up to me moments later and ask if I have a permit to carry. I tell them I don't need a permit to open carry, and I do also have a permit to conceal. They seemed cool let me go.

Moments later I am in the street talking to an old friend when the two security guards come up to me again this time with a bigger guy. The bigger guy asks me to leave and I ask if I cover it can I stay.. he agrees so I cover it and start talking to my friend again.

About 20 minutes later.. I decide I will have ONE beer. (I know here comes the rage and flaming but 1 beer at my size of 185 Lbs will do literally nothing). Moments later the big guy comes up to me and kicks me out and pretty much forcefully as you can get without touching me removes me from the fair. I leave peacefully as I know once asked to leave it becomes a tresspassing issue not sure if that applies to the street they have blocked for the fair (does a permit allow them to remove me, does them being able to block the road remove public property for that time?)

He insists that drinking while carrying a weapon is against the law, So trying to educate him I look it up on my phone to prove it is not. My attempt to educate him causes him to tell me I am being rude, he knows the laws he is an off duty officer. I ask for his ID and badge number multiple times and he ignores the request. I am thinking he is not a police officer and is in fact impersonating one.

I am now back in a public intersection outside the road blocks and start to record the issue. One of the security guards comes behind me and activates his tazer a few times, I didn't even notice until my friend tells me.

If I didn't fear my being wrong about school being out for said law to be applicable I would have went to the Zone 1 police dept. and had them go up to see if this man who calls himself an off duty officer is or is not infact impersonating one.

BTW: 1000 feet is a very long distance... I am not sure how many have actually seen 1000 feet but it is pretty unreasonable in my opinion. The width of Troy hill is probably close to 1000 feet lol and that's where this school is so by theory I couldn't even walk from one end to the other.