Zimmerman Trial

[ABuck]

Legally under FL law the only things GZ is in risk of are established case law doctrines that even their statutory SYG law doesn't quash.

Just a reminder, this is NOT a Stand Your Ground case. There was a pre-trial hearing to determine if SYG was going to be used by the defense, and they declined at that point. I don't know if it can be invoked later in the trial, or in any appeal, if needed. In all of the trial I have seen, I have not heard SYG mentioned. This is being argued as strictly self defense so far, AFAIK.

Where I do see it mentioned is in many news articles, the article comments, and in forum posts. I see it as bad reporting, bias, and just plain uninformed reporters that are using SYG for ratings, or to fit their agenda.

[ronbo1012]

Just to get back to the +1 chatter for a second. The gun used has no safety, a pull of the trigger can retract and fire the round. A revolver, most, has no safety, and a pull of the trigger can retract and fire a round. Yes, I know it rotates the cylinder and basically puts one in the pipe, but, the shooter's action is the same.
I just wonder if this could be used as part of the argument.

[DClan]

From the site I linked to: There was no 3 minute delay between Zimmerman hanging up and Trayvon attacking him, there was a gap of 145 seconds (2 minutes, 25 seconds) between the end of his call and the connection with the first 911 call from someone who saw the fight, made the decision to call 911, picked up her phone, dialed, and connected.

[Zimmerman's] call lasted for approximately 4 minutes and 12 seconds. If it connected at 7:09:34, then it would have ended at approximately 7:13:46. the first 911 call was placed at 7:16:11, so there was approximately a 2 minute, 25 second gap between Zimmerman’s phone call and the first 911 call.

So, there was no 3 minute delay between Zimmerman hanging up and Trayvon attacking him, there was a gap of 145 seconds between the end of his call and the connection with the first 911 call from someone who saw the fight, made the decision to call 911, and connected. She heard the fight sounds, and made the call, and that takes finite time. Her call was made at least 25 seconds after TM and GZ engaged.

So, in a two-minute time span, the prosecution wants you to believe that George somehow chased Trayvon down, caught him, pulled a gun on him, let him beg for his life, and then shot him, all while somehow sustaining severe injuries to his own head and face. No. Not. A. Chance. There is no way that a slightly overweight adult in hiking boots could, in two minutes, chase down a 17 year old who had a 90 second head start. This is why the only possible conclusion is that Trayvon Martin either doubled back or was lying in wait to attack George Zimmerman, just as George Zimmerman said in his statements to police.

I think there is another alternative theory being overlooked here. I would propose that GZ, being slightly obese, took a moment for a breather. During this time, he developed and executed the following plan. Knowing he could not catch TM if he ran, GZ proceeded to use his knowledge of MMA to beat himself up. He did this as a chance the noise would attract TM and bring him closer, which it did. During the 2m25s that followed, TM closed the gap, laughing his ass off. When GZ felt the timing right, he drew his gun while screaming for help and fired, killing TM in the process. He then rolled TM over and muddied the knees of his pants, setting up his self defense claim. There, that theory not only accounts for the time lapse, but also proves GZ guilt and establishes him as an evil racist mastermind.

[streaker69]

I think there is another alternative theory being overlooked here. I would propose that GZ, being slightly obese, took a moment for a breather. During this time, he developed and executed the following plan. Knowing he could not catch TM if he ran, GZ proceeded to use his knowledge of MMA to beat himself up. He did this as a chance the noise would attract TM and bring him closer, which it did. During the 2m25s that followed, TM closed the gap, laughing his ass off. When GZ felt the timing right, he drew his gun while screaming for help and fired, killing TM in the process. He then rolled TM over and muddied the knees of his pants, setting up his self defense claim. There, that theory not only accounts for the time lapse, but also proves GZ guilt and establishes him as an evil racist mastermind.

That's a good plan, but I fail to see how bigfoot is involved?

[knight0334]

Just a reminder, this is NOT a Stand Your Ground case. There was a pre-trial hearing to determine if SYG was going to be used by the defense, and they declined at that point. I don't know if it can be invoked later in the trial, or in any appeal, if needed. In all of the trial I have seen, I have not heard SYG mentioned. This is being argued as strictly self defense so far, AFAIK.

Where I do see it mentioned is in many news articles, the article comments, and in forum posts. I see it as bad reporting, bias, and just plain uninformed reporters that are using SYG for ratings, or to fit their agenda.

Self-defense is still the standing of the defense to counter the charges against him. ...Either the defense has to instill the belief in the jury that it was justified, that the charges don't apply, or that the shooter wasn't the accused. Since it is a fact that GZ did shoot, that only leaves justifiable and non-applicability of charges as arguments.

You are confusing a SYG hearing with the criminal trial hearing. Self-defense is still an argument on the defense's behalf.

[DClan]

That's a good plan, but I fail to see how bigfoot is involved?

That's easy, she was at the white house telling Obama how clever he is.

[ABuck]

Self-defense is still the standing of the defense to counter the charges against him. ...Either the defense has to instill the belief in the jury that it was justified, that the charges don't apply, or that the shooter wasn't the accused. Since it is a fact that GZ did shoot, that only leaves justifiable and non-applicability of charges as arguments.

You are confusing a SYG hearing with the criminal trial hearing. Self-defense is still an argument on the defense's behalf.

I'm not confusing the two. I understand about this being about self defense. But I keep seeing SYG mentioned, and SYG has not been invoked as part of this defense strategy AFAIK. I was just trying to point that out.

So many keep referring to this as a SYG case, but it has not been, so far. Right when this happened I wondered how it could even be a SYG case, as if someone is on top of you, you really CAN'T retreat at that point when your life becomes in danger.

This mentions the SYG hearing I referred to.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...trayvon-martin

[GunLawyer001]

That's a good plan, but I fail to see how bigfoot is involved?

The really scary part is that I had exactly the same response when I read his post.

Be afraid, Streaker.

[knight0334]

That's alot of assumptions on your part. Travon couldn't have attacked as george never stated travon was using the phone prior to him attacking but there is evidence that the phone cut off when the fight broke out which is consistant with the evidence. It didn't take george three minutes as his statements to the police in the video shows & his interview with hannity also! He stated he hung up when he was by the T of the dog walk & that's where travon attacked him. So by his own words three minutes after his police call is when travon was on the phone alive & well & regardless of cell towers the times are still the same for all the east coast so three minutes is still three minutes no matter the cell phone carrier.

If one MUX or switch says it is 3:45, another says it is 3:47, at the very same - there is a discrepancy on the relativity of the evidence.

The point is that TM still attacked GZ, you even say so in your own post above. Where it happened doesn't matter. Time frame really has no bearing either. The point is that TM attacked GZ, the fight ensued to the point where TM was on top of GZ, banging his head on the ground, which in turn lead to GM shooting TM.

What needs to be determined is what caused TM to attack GZ - was it out of self-defense? Was TM's use of force justified against GZ? Did GZ do something that caused TM to attack GZ? But as Gunlawyer001 pointed out, there probably wasn't a justification for TM to attack GZ.

So, then you go to GZ's use of force. Did the situation require deadly force, or would "like-force" been sufficient enough? Was the situation actual and clear that deadly force was required?

So that brings us to this:

1. Who attacked who?
a - TM attacked GZ
b - TM's attack on GZ was not justified

2. Was deadly force necessary?
a - TM pounding of GZ head on ground
b - in most places that is immediate risk of serious bodily injury or death to warrant deadly force
c - justified

[streaker69]

The really scary part is that I had exactly the same response when I read his post.

Be afraid, Streaker.

Does that mean you're in my head, or I'm in your head?