Ar pistol in car with a 16 barrel

[homedefender]

So I have a Ar that I built from a stripped lower that started life as a pistol but at this time I only have a 16 in upper. So I have been searching the inter webs and have yet to determined if this is (A)still considered a pistol and therefor legal to carry concealed or more specificly loaded in a car or is it (B) now a rifle or (C) to big of a grey area and not worth the risk?

[yoshi]

As far as I'm aware, since the lower is registered as a pistol, you're fine. You can swap to a 16" upper without an issue and even put a stock on it in that form. However, you get caught with a stock on and a barrel less than 16" and you're done for. I mean, for simplicity sake I'd just not drive around with it loaded in the first place. We're people, so are cops. Assuming cops know every legal statute is as ridiculous as them expecting you to know them. Don't b surprised if a cop freaks out on you and locks everyone down until its all "cleared up".

[Pa.Sniper]

It is now a rifle and can never be made into a pistol again.

[knight0334]

Since it is a pistol with a barrel 15 inches or longer it is not a "firearm", therefor cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle.

[knight0334]

It is now a rifle and can never be made into a pistol again.

It is not a rifle now. It is still a pistol, however it isn't a PA defined "firearm".

And, guns that start out as pistols can be made into rifles and converted back. But at no point in the process of transforming back and forth can a barrel under 16" be on the gun when a shoulder stock is attached.

[GunLawyer001]

Here's the PA default definition of "firearm":

“Firearm.” Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

Here's the statute on carrying loaded long guns in vehicles:

§ 6106.1. Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms
(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.

(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.

ATF issued new guidance in 2011 on pistol/rifle swapping, the gist of which is that if your gun starts out as a rifle, it must stay a rifle, it can't ever be a Title I pistol. It can be registered as an NFA SBR. But if your gun starts out as a pistol, it CAN be made into a rifle, and then back again, despite the literal language of the statute.

Here:
"Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol)."
http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations...ing-2011-4.pdf

So, if you make your pistol into a rifle, with a buttstock, and overall length 26" or more, and barrel length 16" or more, it's not a "firearm" for purposes of carrying it loaded in a vehicle (so even with an LTCF, you can't carry it loaded in a car). Without a buttstock, you CAN carry it loaded in a car if the OAL is under 26" and you have an LTCF.

With a buttstock and a barrel under 16", it's a felony, unless you've pre-registered it as an SBR under the NFA.

[homedefender]

Here's the PA default definition of "firearm":

“Firearm.” Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

So the correct way of reading this is, to be a rifle you must have a min of 16 in barrel AND a overall length 26 in otherwise it is a sbr (with a stock) or a pistol without.

[GunLawyer001]

So the correct way of reading this is, to be a rifle you must have a min of 16 in barrel AND a overall length 26 in otherwise it is a sbr (with a stock) or a pistol without.

Factoring in both state and federal laws, it's a "rifle" if it has a buttstock.
It's an NFA SBR if the overall length with that buttstock and barrel is under 26", or the barrel is under 16".
It's a PA-defined "firearm" if the barrel is under 16" or the OAL is under 26".

A registered SBR is often legal to carry loaded in a car with an LTCF, if it's a PA-defined "firearm".

[homedefender]

Unfortunately after actually measuring the overall length is still greater then 26in without the stock. I guess I have to get a short upper again. Thanks for the clarification on the matter

[chrisjp]

good info...thanks