What would you have done?

[tmountjr]

Semi-hypothetical...put yourself in my shoes as I recount something that happened tonight.

I got home from a friend's house around 9p. I have my own driveway (a luxury in the city) which leads right to my back door. There's no fence around the property line. As I'm unlocking the door, I hear a voice and footsteps not more than 20 feet behind me. I turn around and there's a guy walking briskly (not running, but not moseying) towards me, on my sidewalk (my property), carrying a pair of pruning shears. He doesn't have a menacing look on his face and the shears are down, not up in a position like he was going to try to bury them in my torso. Still, after dark, dude I don't know on my property with two sharp blades, walking right up my sidewalk towards me, where I had just almost unlocked my door...

Keep a few things in mind: In this neighborhood, where there are very few properties with fences, locals are all the time cutting through between the houses. Also, specifically in this neighborhood, there have been a few burglaries where the assailants would knock or ring the doorbell, and when the homeowner answered the door, they'd force themselves through. Given all those details, would it be justifiable to draw on this guy, and if he kept coming, to take the shot? Would it be a reasonable fear that this guy was approaching quickly, displaying a deadly weapon, and that he intended grave bodily injury, even though he wasn't in my home yet?

All the above happened in less than two seconds. I saw him coming and squared to him, and when I did, he made some passing reference to keeping the dogs (my neighbor's pit bulls) in the house while he...I dunno, trimmed a hedge at 9pm on a Sunday night? In the dark? In any event, he moved off my property and kept walking, exchanged pleasantries, and disappeared. Had he not, or had the shears been up or had he not been smiling, I honestly feel I would have been in fear of my life. I didn't draw, but it was as close as I've ever come since moving up here.

Of course one of my failings I'll readily admit is, I wasn't as aware of my surroundings as I should have been, because when I turned around and saw him, it took me a second to assess the scene, and during that second he very easily could have closed distance and shoved those shears into my ribs. I keep thinking, if I had taken more time before getting out of my car to look around, or if I had reacted faster...thankfully it all worked out but when I went back out later I was definitely more nervous and more aware.

Thoughts on the legality of drawing and/or shooting in that circumstance?

[JenniferG]

Sounds like it could have been a pretty tight situation there. In those types of instances you only have a seconds to make a decision on what to do. Living in an area where there are neighbors that are fairly close together there are going to be more encounters with others that you may not know. I think you were fortunate that the man meant no harm if not acting bit strange. If you were able to get inside and get the door shut before the man got too close I probably would have gone for that option rather than see what he had planned to do with the shears.

I can tell you right now that if that happened where I live he'd be staring down the barrel of whatever it is I carry and I would have told him to stop right where he is. If he would have come any closer with the shears after I warned to stop he would leave me no choice. I live in a fairly rural area and anybody on my property that time of night with anything in their hands other than the Publisher's Clearinghouse Check would be taking their life in their own hands.

[ATBackpackin]

Semi-hypothetical...put yourself in my shoes as I recount something that happened tonight.

I got home from a friend's house around 9p. I have my own driveway (a luxury in the city) which leads right to my back door. There's no fence around the property line. As I'm unlocking the door, I hear a voice and footsteps not more than 20 feet behind me. I turn around and there's a guy walking briskly (not running, but not moseying) towards me, on my sidewalk (my property), carrying a pair of pruning shears. He doesn't have a menacing look on his face and the shears are down, not up in a position like he was going to try to bury them in my torso. Still, after dark, dude I don't know on my property with two sharp blades, walking right up my sidewalk towards me, where I had just almost unlocked my door...

Keep a few things in mind: In this neighborhood, where there are very few properties with fences, locals are all the time cutting through between the houses. Also, specifically in this neighborhood, there have been a few burglaries where the assailants would knock or ring the doorbell, and when the homeowner answered the door, they'd force themselves through. Given all those details, would it be justifiable to draw on this guy, and if he kept coming, to take the shot? Would it be a reasonable fear that this guy was approaching quickly, displaying a deadly weapon, and that he intended grave bodily injury, even though he wasn't in my home yet?

All the above happened in less than two seconds. I saw him coming and squared to him, and when I did, he made some passing reference to keeping the dogs (my neighbor's pit bulls) in the house while he...I dunno, trimmed a hedge at 9pm on a Sunday night? In the dark? In any event, he moved off my property and kept walking, exchanged pleasantries, and disappeared. Had he not, or had the shears been up or had he not been smiling, I honestly feel I would have been in fear of my life. I didn't draw, but it was as close as I've ever come since moving up here.

Of course one of my failings I'll readily admit is, I wasn't as aware of my surroundings as I should have been, because when I turned around and saw him, it took me a second to assess the scene, and during that second he very easily could have closed distance and shoved those shears into my ribs. I keep thinking, if I had taken more time before getting out of my car to look around, or if I had reacted faster...thankfully it all worked out but when I went back out later I was definitely more nervous and more aware.

Thoughts on the legality of drawing and/or shooting in that circumstance?

First thing I would do is put up a fence, no trespassing signs, and some motion lights. Anybody I do not recognize walking toward me, at night, and on my property is most definitely a threat! Visible weapon or not.

Being less than twenty feet from you with a lethal weapon, he possibly could have been on you before you attempted to draw and fire. Depends on your training experience.

Things worked out this time, but take this experience as an opportunity to be better prepared in case there is a next time.

What would I have done??? I would have put my hand on my gun while telling him to stop. Can I help you with something? Why are you on my property? If he continued toward me, I would would have absolutely drawn and reaccessed.

Remember not to get tunnel vision. If this had been a bad guy, he may have been a decoy for the one you didn't see.

Shawn

[brsims]

Individual I don't know, carrying a possibly lethal weapon, wandering around on my property at night?

This is the single biggest reason I advocate Open Carry for myself. I would have squared up (as you did), which would have displayed the sidearm on my hip, kept a hand close (but not on! Very important!) to my gun, and verbally engaged the individual at question ("Excuse me, can I help you sir?").

I have found maintaining a polite tone while ensuring a potential savage is aware I am capable and prepared to respond to violence with violence is the best way to go about such situations. It never hurts to prepare yourself for the last resort while making use of all your other options.

You will note that I made a point of the importance of not touching your sidearm unless absolutely necessary. This is a result of my training....never pull unless you are going to use, never use unless you are going to kill. By keeping your hand OFF your sidearm, if there is an official response to the encounter instigated by someone else (like the "intruder"), you are in a better position legally (I THINK! I am not a lawyer!). Remember, just because you cannot see them does not mean there are not witnesses. Especially in a more populated area.

[PocketProtector]

I'd move out of West Philly, or Philly in general for that matter.

[VRH]

Interesting. I live in an area where everyone knows every in the immediate area. Even though we have almost no fences, its too wide open to be surprised when unknown people pass by. Unknown people acting strage, loitering or soliciting always get the cops called out and an alert goes by email (neighborhood watch stuff). We have had a few issues over the years, so, we are well organized.

I would fence the yard to cut down on tresspassers if I were you. And you should at least notify the cops of a suspicious person.

[mpan72]

For the exact senerio you portrayed I think you did well. In hind sight you could have been more aware or you could have a fence or you could have.......

None of those things were true at the time your encounter happened so once again in my opinion you did the right things.

[tmountjr]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I think some home improvement projects are going to happen this summer...motion-sensor light? Definitely. Fence? Hopefully. That's not quite as simple as it sounds... And, I need to practice some stuff I learned but let slip over the last few years...

[MikeinPhilly]

I'd move out of West Philly, or Philly in general for that matter.

Because bad things only happen in Philly?

[thorazine]

As soon as you saw him you should have pulled a role reversal..

Stating,

"HEY MAN... CAN I GET A FEW DOLLARS? HAVE ANY CHANGE YOU CAN SPARE?"