Ammunition cost and training.

[PeteG]

Many people have asked me about cutting ammo requirements in various courses. Here's how I see it.

The ammunition requirement was set to cover a certain subject matter in a certain way. One can review a course, and probably trim a little here and there, but we have to assume that a course required X rounds in the first place, which is why the round count was established at X. Suddenly doing the course with X - (1/2X) rounds suggests either the round count was not set correctly in the first place, or something important got cut from the course.

There were a LOT of courses that were marketed between 2008 and 2011 based at least in part upon high round counts. That was hucksterism then, and it hucksterism now to suggest one can get a comprehensive pistol course with 100 rounds or a comprehensive carbine course with 200 rounds. The markeing guys call this process "feeded the dog what it wants to eat."

The problem with that approach is that when it comes to firearms training (or most any form of education), the instructor is supposed to know better than the dog what it should be eating. If he does not, he should not be giving the course. Likewise, if he does, but will still tell prospective students anything they want to hear, he should not be givng the course (albeit for a different reason).

The cost of ammo today hurts. So does the cost of a good firearm, and, indeed, the cost of a good course. One simply has to decide it it is worth it to them to get the traininig - just as it was before this "ammunition shortage." This is not materially different from people complaining they could not afford $300 course tuition when the cost of ammo was reasonable, and then going out and buying yet another $300 "safe queen."

It's going to be a year before the hoarding and scalping abates. Meantime, the choices appear to be to either suck it up and spend what it takes to stay in the game or stay on the porch. Looking to train with LOW round counts (how ironic) is not going to buy salvation in this case.

If you want an interesting perspective, go back and look at the 2010 thread on this forum called "The True Cost of Training."

[Magmadragoon]

I was planing on going to an AR and/or AK training class but I don't have the required 5 magazines for each gun or 500 bullets for each class. The bullets cost more than the class nowadays.

[PAT FINN]

got our son a pistol training at Gunsite for his college graduation

airfare , $500
room and board $800
training $1,400
ammo $ $350

the expierence of a week with my son and firearm training by world class instructors ..... yes, priceless ..

[Orive 8]

the expierence of a week with my son and firearm training by world class instructors ..... yes, priceless ..

As someone that has had a chance to do this at numerous classes over the last 30 years with my wife - I will agree with you PRICELESS! Some of our best times together was spent at various firearms training events over the years.

One specifically was the Team Tactics class that we attended at Thunder Ranch in TX back in the mid 90s.

Being able to do that with your son - way cool!

[John A Brown]

The good news about the ammo situation that went full-auto insane after the Newtown shooting in December is that with the gun control measures defeated in Congress last week, things are already starting to calm down.

I've seen prices on .223 / 5.56 and 9mm drop significantly on Gunbroker over the past week to 10 days, and I have seen more ammo available at several retail outlets during that same time frame.

It's getting better and will continue to do so.

I've seen a lot of people over the past 4 to 5 months stating that there was no ammo available. This is not true and never was. I am on Gunbroker several times a day and I've been to 3 or 4 gun shows since December. There has ALWAYS been ammo available. The price was just high. I understand if it is or was cost prohibitive for some. I truly do. But to say there was no ammo available is just not true.

Owning and carrying a firearm is an extremely significant responsibility. You owe it to yourself to obtain quality, professional training so that when - not if, when - the day comes when you have to use your gun to fight for your life of the life of someone you love and care about, you have the necessary skills to do so.

Is it a sacrifice? Absolutely.

How much is your life worth?

John

www.3riverstraining.com

[PeteG]

As someone that has had a chance to do this at numerous classes over the last 30 years with my wife - I will agree with you PRICELESS! Some of our best times together was spent at various firearms training events over the years.

One specifically was the Team Tactics class that we attended at Thunder Ranch in TX back in the mid 90s.

Being able to do that with your son - way cool!

It was at a course in Paulden, Arizona that I realized I was in love with my girlfriend, who is now my wife.

There's just something about taking a "time out" from all the issues and matters and noise that compete for our attention day-to-day, and focusing on ONE THING (that is not an emergency or a hassle) for a few days. It's a real luxury, even before one considers the benefits of the training.

As any experienced martial artist or police or military operator will tell you, few things bring people closer emotionally than training hard together. It's just a very positive experience.

[he11zna]

We often also forget that training to "be prepared" consists of more than just running the gun.

I've seen the physical conditioning of "shooters" and let me tell you, it's not pretty.

Guess it all about what you want from "training".

[PeteG]

We often also forget that training to "be prepared" consists of more than just running the gun.

I've seen the physical conditioning of "shooters" and let me tell you, it's not pretty.

Guess it all about what you want from "training".

People can only do what they can do. Not everyone can be a 22 year old or an ironman. Time causes ALL people to become old, overweight, crippled and blind. Only the very young percieve themselves to be immune . The sooner one accepts and deals with that fact, the better prepared he or she can be for the inevitable.

Meantime, we train real people, as we find them. Better to be half-blind and overweight with two bad knees and a gun one nows how to use than half-blind and overweight with two bad knees and a gun one does not know how to use. The only real difference between one who is in excellent physical condition and one who is not is the latter is more in need of the firearms training.

But that has nothing to do with cost. One can get into better, or even excellent, physical condition without paying anything.

Take the money you would spend on the next 72 Big-Mac meals and spend it on a course.

[TXDMERC73]

got our son a pistol training at Gunsite for his college graduation

airfare , $500
room and board $800
training $1,400
ammo $ $350

the expierence of a week with my son and firearm training by world class instructors ..... yes, priceless ..

holey fack i must still be in the ice age

[he11zna]

But that has nothing to do with cost. One can get into better, or even excellent, physical condition without paying anything.

Take the money you would spend on the next 72 Big-Mac meals and spend it on a course.

What I wouldn't give for being 22 years old and an "ironman" as you call it...

Your point above is the truth though, althoguh I hope you realize I was talking more about "being prepared" (as most think themselves to be) than being a shooter...