Military vs. Self defense training

[B.A.]

I think ideally it depends on your goals. What are you actually preparing for? is it that BG that trying to steal your cash or a true SHTF scenario? Or some thing in between? Me personally my self, i want to be prepared for what may come my way. so I'll take any thing and every thing into consideration, toss out what i think is dumb or doesn't work and keep what will keep my ass hole free.

The reason as a civilian i like military style training is simply as the old saying goes a good defense is a good offense. If I come under attack it puts me in a better position if i can over come my enemy and put him into a defensive stance. It's always much easier to attack then to defend (generally).

When i took the AK101 course by Rockwell tactical one of the things he talked about was when he was still a ranger he was deployed in Iraq his group very rarely got messed with but their sister group always got shot up, he realized after a while because when ever his group went out they showed up like rock stars fearing nothing. The other group showed up slumped low in their hummers tucked in as tight as they could get scared of any thing that went bump.

None of us (who haven't already) been in a gun fight will know how we'll react, but you'll generally fight how you train so train to be a bad ass.

[Gun]

some months ago i came across a level 2a vest at an unbelievable price that was a size too small for me, in an ideal world. i gave it to a buddy that teaches these kind of classes to keep him from being shot by some wannabe.

A vest on any sort will not keep someone from being shot, and will only lessen the injury if the bullet hits the vest.

As far as the rest of your post, you must be really awesome.

As my favorite character would say about now.

BAZINGA

If you are in agreement with whom you quoted, bazinga is not the correct word.

[Grey Bearded One]

After many years of shooting and various schools and trainings. I know that I for one can say that what worked 20 years ago, doesn't apply anymore. From stances, foot placement, how to hold the gun, how to reload, what to do with the empties after you reload, etc...

I would argue that it still works fine it has just been supplanted by either the flavor of the day or something that is arguably better.

[Mtbkski]

If you are in agreement with whom you quoted, bazinga is not the correct word.

It was geared towards the comment that TonyF made to the poster. So, yeah, it worked.

The reason as a civilian i like military style training is simply as the old saying goes a good defense is a good offense. If I come under attack it puts me in a better position if i can over come my enemy and put him into a defensive stance. It's always much easier to attack then to defend (generally).

I'm assuming you are referring to "military style training" as the "tactical carbine" classes and such that are offered.

True Military Training really doesn't apply to the individual very well. Even the Special Teams are not "one man" units. And have a lot of people helping them to pull off the mission they are on. You are relying on your buddy, and lots of others, behind the scenes to get you in and out of a situation.

The Tactical classes that you see around here, they are geared more towards you and only you. No help from anyone else. So they really aren't "military" training at all. Yet, are very different from the average gun class you will take.

[Mtbkski]

I would argue that it still works fine it has just been supplanted by either the flavor of the day or something that is arguably better.

Well yes and no... Skiing is basically the same techniques. But equipment changes and gear improvements have "forced" skiers to change the way they ski, or they don't benefit from the new stuff.

Firearms have changed. And shooters have had to change to learn to use the "new stuff" too. Revolvers were everything years ago. Now it is auto's. Reloads have changed along with the firearms. Carry methods are different and have improved, and this in turn made for changes in how we carry our firearms and use them.

Hell, 15 years ago, most of us would have never considered owning an AR or AK. Only the really "hard core" gun nut would own a firearm like this. Now most of us do. So, training again must adapt and change to teach the gun owner how to effectively use this type of firearm.

While I agree that "basics" may still be in the mix. Much has changed over the years. And that is a good thing.

So, while the "basics" of using a firearm may still be there. To say that training is like it was 15 or 20 years ago is pretty far off in my opinion.

[Grey Bearded One]

So, while the "basics" of using a firearm may still be there. To say that training is like it was 15 or 20 years ago is pretty far off in my opinion.

However, that isn't what you said.

[Gun]

It was geared towards the comment that TonyF made to the poster. So, yeah, it worked.

I agree with TonyF's comment, I guess you don't from what you stated. That's cool.

[DaveM55]

I'm too old to put on a lot of gear and take a class, I like to be light as possible. The only thing mounted on my untacticool AR's is a light and a red dot. I have no ambition to be a special forces operator nor to train like one.

I've never understood the whole zombie craze. I'm not concerned with chaos and roving armed gangs in my neighborhood. But yes I do keep a small number of MRE's in case of a natural disaster.

I prefer a reality approach to training for situations which I might actually encounter. The gear I use in a class is the gear I would have on a typical day which does NOT include Molle gear, helmet, vest, etc. In the past I did buy a cheap vest and some molle pouches. I've worn it in my house and practiced dry firing and reloads with it. It is restrictive and awkward IMHO. I learned I don't like it and have never taken it to the range. It sits in a box in my closet.

If someone has the money and desire to get all geared up and take a class more power to them, but it's just not my preference.

Great thread!

[Mtbkski]

I prefer a reality approach to training for situations which I might actually encounter. The gear I use in a class is the gear I would have on a typical day which does NOT include Molle gear, helmet, vest, etc. In the past I did buy a cheap vest and some molle pouches. I've worn it in my house and practiced dry firing and reloads with it. It is restrictive and awkward IMHO. I learned I don't like it and have never taken it to the range. It sits in a box in my closet.

If someone has the money and desire to get all geared up and take a class more power to them, but it's just not my preference.

Great thread!

The gear really is a personal preference. But at the same time, there are some things that just make the class a bit more enjoyable and some that are just... well... required.

I know the last part of the last shoot I did required a lot of moving and reloading. I took all my extra gear off (mainly because I had an injury that was really bothering me). When it came time to move from target to target, carrying mags in my pockets just didn't work. I lost one almost as soon as I started running.

Yet, the chances of me having mag pouches on doing "typical everyday stuff" isn't likely. So, there are things that you just have to have if your going to participate in some of these "tactical" types of training.

I know that the next class I take, I'm going to try a different approach to the gear I have. I know that the "big stuff" I have, I can move and shoot in and that was something I wanted to find out. Now I want to try a different approach. But then, that is part of what going to these type of classes are all about. Finding out what works, what doesn't.

[Spectre6]

In typical everyday life you won't have a rifle on you either.. I am a big fan of the 'paddle' type kydex mag holders like from comp tac ready tactical. Keep one or two near your rifle and grab them if you need them. They slip right over your belt and hold secure, giving you a quick extra mag or two.