Military vs. Self defense training

**ungawa** · June 8th, 2013, 01:28 PM

Chuck is that "KWA" airsoft or a machinegun?

**John A Brown** · June 8th, 2013, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

I never knew that about full co witnessing the front sight, and being able to use the optic as the ghost ring for up close shooting. Very interesting.

And just to let everyone know. I just ordered a "folding" rear sight from Troy(trumpets blare, church bells ring all thru the valley) to replace my junk one.

Well done Randy.

John

www.3riverstraining.com

**justashooter** · June 8th, 2013, 03:15 PM

some months ago i came across a level 2a vest at an unbelievable price that was a size too small for me, in an ideal world. i gave it to a buddy that teaches these kind of classes to keep him from being shot by some wannabe.

that being said, very few leo or military are actually competent with a firearm of any kind. 50 rounds at 7 yards once a year? give me a break. one day of weapons training and qualification in navy boot camp? more time putting fires out. remf jobs for the guys in the green pajamas? which end do i point at the bad guy?

truth is that the point of the spear is very sharp and very narrow. haven't met anybody yet that can teach me what i haven't already learned in 30 years in the hobby. don't know many that have more rounds downrange or experience with a wider assortment of platforms, etc.

met a few "special fatass" types that claim to know stuff, but they never hold up under scrutiny. the real ones, you'd never know. they don't talk about it, much less advertise and stand up in front of rooms full of dufuses lecturing.

**John A Brown** · June 8th, 2013, 03:40 PM

justashooter,

If you think cops in PA shoot 50 rounds from 7 yards, you need to educate yourself.

Actually, nevermind. You seem to already know everything. There certainly isn't anything anyone here could teach someone as awesome as you.

I don't know what your post was supposed to even remotely contribute to what was a good discussion - other than to tell people how awesome you are.

John

www.3riverstraining.com

**Mtbkski** · June 8th, 2013, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by John A Brown

justashooter,

If you think cops in PA shoot 50 rounds from 7 yards, you need to educate yourself.

Actually, nevermind. You seem to already know everything. There certainly isn't anything anyone here could teach someone as awesome as you.

I don't know what your post was supposed to even remotely contribute to what was a good discussion - other than to tell people how awesome you are.

John

www.3riverstraining.com

OK, thats funny.

**Chuck S** · June 8th, 2013, 05:09 PM

Folding sights are not absolute necessary. But both these have them. Good airsoft can be a great training gun in the backyard, garage, or basement.

The 10" KWA M4 Carbine in the earlier photo is airsoft. It's a electric gun and not nearly as realistic for training as the gas version. The M4 Carbine is not!

Top: KWA LM4-PTR (professional training rifle) -- gas airsoft with about the same recoil as the S&W M&P15-22. Just enough to require reacquiring the front sight.
Bottom: LWRC M6A1

-- Chuck

**TonyF** · June 8th, 2013, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by justashooter

that being said, very few leo or military are actually competent with a firearm of any kind. 50 rounds at 7 yards once a year? give me a break. one day of weapons training and qualification in navy boot camp? more time putting fires out. remf jobs for the guys in the green pajamas? which end do i point at the bad guy?

It's changing for the better but IMO it's unfair to criticize them because unfortunately, there just isn't enough funding available for training in most LE agencies unless you and I agree to have our taxes raised appreciably.

truth is that the point of the spear is very sharp and very narrow. haven't met anybody yet that can teach me what i haven't already learned in 30 years in the hobby.

That's quite an accomplishment if you're just a hobbyist and recreational shooter.

don't know many that have more rounds downrange or experience with a wider assortment of platforms, etc.

You make a claim like that on a public forum, you really should disclose your bonafides to back it up. If your background is indeed that of a "hobbyist", you're gonna have a hard time getting people to believe you.

And I have to agree with John Brown in that you really aren't bringing anything to the table. In fact, you are fucking up a really good thread.

**Mtbkski** · June 8th, 2013, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by TonyF

And I have to agree with John Brown in that you really aren't bringing anything to the table. In fact, you are fucking up a really good thread.

As my favorite character would say about now.

BAZINGA

**Mtbkski** · June 8th, 2013, 08:14 PM

After many years of shooting and various schools and trainings. I know that I for one can say that what worked 20 years ago, doesn't apply anymore. From stances, foot placement, how to hold the gun, how to reload, what to do with the empties after you reload, etc...

To say that you can just "pick this up" while out shooting on your own. Well, it ain't gonna happen. I don't care what kind of super shooter you are. Some of it doesn't seem right at first. But after you try it and apply it to situations. It starts to make sense and you understand why those things have changed.

Every time I have taken a class, I have picked up at the minimum, at least one new think that relates to my shooting. And to be honest with you, it is ususally more than one thing that I learn.

Between the Marines, LEO school, and being a Firearms instructor for the DOC. I can tell you that most of the best info I have picked up about shooting was from "Private Sector Firearms Training" that I took. At least, as far as the "most useful" type of training that I have taken, that I am most likely to use on the street. I'm not saying that the other schools sucked. It is just that most of them deal with a different kind of situation.

**DennisH82** · June 8th, 2013, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by justashooter

some months ago i came across a level 2a vest at an unbelievable price that was a size too small for me, in an ideal world. i gave it to a buddy that teaches these kind of classes to keep him from being shot by some wannabe.

that being said, very few leo or military are actually competent with a firearm of any kind. 50 rounds at 7 yards once a year? give me a break. one day of weapons training and qualification in navy boot camp? more time putting fires out. remf jobs for the guys in the green pajamas? which end do i point at the bad guy?

truth is that the point of the spear is very sharp and very narrow. haven't met anybody yet that can teach me what i haven't already learned in 30 years in the hobby. don't know many that have more rounds downrange or experience with a wider assortment of platforms, etc.

met a few "special fatass" types that claim to know stuff, but they never hold up under scrutiny. the real ones, you'd never know. they don't talk about it, much less advertise and stand up in front of rooms full of dufuses lecturing.

Real funny post, I almost gave a damn then I farted and forgot why I cared, I guess most military should just hang it up and take your class.