Military vs. Self defense training

[John A Brown]

I agree, but to add to what you are saying.. On the subject of gear and weapons manipulations similarities:
If I was going to train a SEAL or SF (cuz im obviously just that bad-ass..), I would not advocate him practicing his reloads from his jeans back pocket if he is going to be fighting with a plate carrier. He might discover (at a very inopportune time) that his mag pouches on his carrier dont work the way he expected. While it may be beneficial for him to know how to reload from a pocket, this is a contingency and his core skill should probably focus on operating with the kit he plans to fight with.

In much the same vain, for people serious about firearms training I would advocate to train as you would fight.

Obviously, everyone should be training with the gear they will actually be using, with the exception of IWB holsters. They are a nightmare in a training class.

John

http://www.3riverstraining.com

[Hawk]

When I was a kid, we played "Army" all the time with our Marx Tommy guns and Mattel M-16s. This could be a grown up version of that and is "more real" than playing airsoft.

Many guys want to experience the training without the commitment needed for military service.

Some guys really believe that their home will be invaded by the Crips and that they will get involved in a running firefight that will move throughout their entire neighborhood, including their neighbors' homes.

Or it could be that it is fun when you don't have to do it for a living.

+1 Rep button broken.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Nice post. But just wait 'til the Zombies come for YOU!!

[DennisH82]

You could go out and spend thousands of dollars to get the latest and greatest warfighter self defense training with all the Geardo accesories and some kid with .22 will hit you between the eyes by accident when he trips over his shoelaces. Some trianing is worthwhile, so at least you dont shoot yourself in the foot or your buddy in the back.
To many folks watch movies and think that fighting is presented correctly. Fighting fair is for idiots, you take whatever tactical advantage you need to win and go on breathing for another day.
I have seen some folks that play those online warfighter games think that those tactics actually work only to find that you cant reset when you get hit in real life.
You can go on the Iterwebs and see all sorts of "PROFESSIONAL's" telling you what you need to become Tacticaly proficient and most are real asswipes. I would rather lisen and filter out the BS and see what actually works from real world situations and what doesn't then spend money I don't have to learn something that will get me killed at the get go.

[synergy]

It's all bullshit. And much of it is marketing.

People dressing up (especially out-of-shape middle aged men) and playing army.

I curse the GWOT for the influence it has brought to bear in the private sector training industry. It should be about "what people need" vs. "what people want" because most often, people don't know what they need and therefore seek "what they want".

I'm not sure I follow you.

I've trained with the follow folks, who you could easily associated with the GWOT (most participated in it):
Larry Vickers
Kyle Defoor
Northern Red

Not once did we cover squad tactics, flanking maneuvers, or ambushes.

What we did cover was how to run a gun to the best of our abilities.

What's the problem with GWOT veterans teaching people how to shoot again?

The following guys are doing the same thing - teaching marksmanship and shooting lessons learned and verified during the GWOT:
Invictus Alliance
John McPhee
Mike Pannone
Pat MacNamara
TigerSwan

So, where is all of this dress up training at which you are blaming the GWOT for?

[Spectre6]

We are all kids at heart. Most of us loved to play "Army", "Cowboy's & Indian's", and "Cop's & Robber's" as kids. As we grew up we put away the toys of our youth and found new "grown-up" toy's and games to play. How many fat middle age guys have you seen buy a motor cycle and dress up to resemble a Hell's Angles member? As adults we have the freedoms and (sometimes) the money to fulfill some of our dreams to a "certain" extent.

I haven't pursued any "military style" training, but I have been involved in CMP & NRA HP for the past 6 years, which has a relationship to military training (semi-military? ).

I kind of agree with Tony, but not as strongly. It seems that we really need to separate "training" into two schools. One that caters to those who are serious about practical and applicable self-defense training for every day life as a civilian. The second, to appeal to those who want more of a combat style of training to fulfill a dream or some "need" regardless if it's practical or applicable as a civilian in today's society.

You know I can totally understand this. And I agree I think there needs to be seperation of practical and the 'dream' experience (for lack of a better definition)..

This is where I think the Zombie stuff comes into play a bit, and why I dont have as much of an issue with it (as long as it is not taken too seriously). I think the zombie stuff is an outlet for people to live out a fantasy. The issue is when people take it too seriously and fantasy and reality start to blur. Rabies is not going to turn people into zombie hordes..

I wonder if there would be interest or benefit for a completely satirical zombie 'training' experience.. I know some people are going to cringe at this...
A one day course of fire, incorporating all the basics of weapons safety and manipulation, but with a clear separation from practical self-defense training. Maybe have some tannerite targets, some zombie targets that explode and look really cool.. maybe some totally unrealistic scenarios set up like IDPA. The instructors could give examples of times they had to fight off a hoard of zombies etc... give people an excuse and an outlet to get dressed up and live out a fantasy.. All under the watchful eye of professional range cadre. And it might help people differentiate from practical and fun training. More or less after weapons basics had been established, it would be structured plinking.

The key here is to clearly label and structure this course as just a fun,safe experience, not serious weapons training.

I dont know, this is just all speculation.. It may attract the wrong crowd or give people bad training habits. I think it would take careful marketing to not devalue other types of firearms training.

[Rblakely]

I have to admit that there is one thing I see very often that I find amusing. The guy wearing all his tacticool gear taking a military style training class and considerably overweight. I'm not going to pick on anyone who has packed a few pounds on over the years but get real. If you're 5'10" and 250lbs a bad guy doesn't have to be more trained than you. He just needs to make you run around for 5 minutes until you collapse from being in such poor shape. If you're serious, get serious. New rule - you can't be tacticool if you can't see your belt buckle. If you want to dress up and play army during a weekend class, great - just admit that is what you are doing.

[Orive 8]

Spectre6,

Lookie here, someone is already offering the Zombie survival class!


http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/cours...x?CourseID=195

[Spectre6]

Spectre6,

Lookie here, someone is already offering the Zombie survival class!


http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/cours...x?CourseID=195

Someone beat me to it!

[Orive 8]

Got a friend who is really into the Zombie thing, tried to get him to make the drive up to Sigarms and take the class with me but he declined.

Oh well, it would most likely be a hoot!