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May 20th, 2013, 04:57 AM #1
125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
Can anybody tell me if I am seeing this right or am I missing something?
Okay so supposedly the 125g .357 magnum with around 1400fps is supposed to be the best proven man stopper out of all the calibers recorded.
So if thats true and the .357 Sig is the same then wouldn't that mean that the .357 Sig would equal that of the best man stopper recorded?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the same thing?
125g .357 Magnum
125g .357 Sig
if the grains is the same, the bullet is the same and you get the same fps then wouldn't that mean both are equal or super super super super super close to say the least???
I have seen .357 Sigs on youtube in 125g that can reach up to 1500fps in test.
Of course I know that a .357 Sig cannot go any further in terms of more and more power but as far as duplicating the best man stopper recorded isn't it the same???
Same bullet? Same Grain? And you can adjust the fps depending on brand to match the .357 mag in 125g I assume since I have seen loads in 125g with the .357 sig that can reach about 1525 is the most I seen on youtube recorded.Last edited by ICEN; May 20th, 2013 at 05:00 AM.
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May 20th, 2013, 05:40 AM #2
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
The only "proof" is what Marshall & Sanow published on numbers of one shot stops by different calibers and loads back in the 90's. That king of manstoppers load they talked about was for two 125 grain loads, Federal and Remington SJHP. According to their data, other 125 grain loads were good but not as effective. Although it isn't proof by any means, those two loads have had an excellent reputation for many years. Many that carry .357s today, carry smaller, lightweight revolvers and the recoil and muzzle blast from those loads can be a bit much, especially for novices. Now we have reduced 125 grain loads that give standard 9mm velocities at best and some think they are carrying loads as effective as those two mentioned. In terms of energy and velocity, the .357 Sig easily beats out the newer reduced 125 grain .357 mag loads.
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May 20th, 2013, 11:53 AM #3
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
That was the whole idea behind the invention of the .357 Sig cartridge - to try to closely duplicate the ballistics of the .357 Mag 125 gr loads, in a semi-auto pistol. They came close, and as you noted some specialty loads were able to obtain .357 mag velocities.
There are many LE agencies that have chosen this caliber for that reason. The DHS sky marshals carry .357 Sigs as do the RISP. I have a friend who is on the RISP SWAT unit and he told me that, at first, they were worried about the Sig overpenetrating, but they tested it under all sorts of conditions and on all sorts of targets/barriers and were happy enough with it, that it became the issue round.
I think it is one of the best personal defense rounds available. The combination of high velocity paired with a 125 gr HP (Gold Dots seem to be the bullets of choice among LE agencies) in a compact double stack pistol is hard to beat. The bottleneck case, while a PITA for reloaders, helps insure positive feeding. Great caliber.
JMHO
Adios,
Pizza BobNRA Benefactor Member
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May 20th, 2013, 11:59 AM #4
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
Just because the .357 Mag can reach speeds of 1700 FPS doesn't make it a better "man stopper" than the same gun/projo at 1500 FPS.
If the JHP isn't able to transfer all of it's energy into the target it's effectiveness will be reduced. It would be reasonable to believe that a JHP traveling that fast would tend to over-penetrate and the recoil from a load that hot would be very difficult to control. When a JHP travels that fast, the petals can fold back over on the bullet too far and the overall diameter is reduced to just slightly bigger than original.
I have pictures some where of recovered projectiles when I was developing SD loads that explain ^^^ much better than I can articulate here. I will say that as far as JHP expansion, the MV "sweet spot" (on the projos I tested) was 1450 - 1525 FPS. Any faster than that, they over-expanded and the diameter got smaller as MV increased above 1525.
I love shooting my dad's Python (.357 Mag) but I'll take my G32 for home/self defense/carry any day.
13+1 125 gr JHP @ 1450 FPS
6 125 gr JHP @ 1500 FPSWhen you are called a racist, it just means you won an argument with an Obama supporter.
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May 20th, 2013, 12:51 PM #5
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
or a .40 s&W firing a 135gr projectile at the same speeds....or a .45 firing a 185 gr at similar speeds. or a 9mm firing +p+ 127 gr at the same speed. All these should be very similar in wound characteristics. It all comes down to shot placement and luck. physics is physics.
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May 20th, 2013, 01:35 PM #6Banned
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Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
Personally, i wouldn't want to be hit by any of them, It would sure as hell stop me. A .22 would stop me. To contemplate what the "best" man stopper is, it is wide open to many interpretations, what books you read, who's data you believe, who you believe. Now these tests are in a controlled environment with sophisticated equipment. Distance also plays a big factor, if you have to defend yourself within 5 feet, the ballistics are way different than 5 yards. If my life was on the line, i would pick up a rock if need be.
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May 20th, 2013, 05:17 PM #7
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
Also is the .357 Sig really .357?
I have herd some people say that the .357 Sig is actually .355???
But I tried to look this up and it still says its .357???
Basically I hear alot that both .357's are actually .355 is that true or false because I keep getting mixed answers.
Are the bullets from .357 Sig and .357 Mag the same because some people claim one or both is actually .355 instead of .357???
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May 20th, 2013, 06:02 PM #8
Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
Google is your friend. 357 Sig is .01" in diameter bigger than a 9mm, but .08" narrower than a 357.
Google 'using 355 in 357' for more info.
BTW, one shot man stopper rounds are only good when you can hit the target with that first round. Try shooting a 357 mag, loaded with 38spl's and ONLY one 357 mag round. That will help you control anticipation of the heavier round.
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May 20th, 2013, 06:06 PM #9Grand Member
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Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
According to the professors at the University of Wikipedia, the Sig is .355 (9.02 mm) and the mag is .357 (9.1 mm). Curiosity got the best of me, so I had to look.
BCM and Glock...for a bigger pile of 'cold dead hands' brass.
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May 20th, 2013, 06:34 PM #10Senior Member
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Re: 125g .357 Sig = to .125g .357 Magnum?
The .357 Mag and the .357 Sig do not use the same bullet. The .357 Sig was named such because they were trying to duplicate the .357 Mag in an auto round. Sig uses a .355" bullet, a 9mm bullet. .357 mag uses a .38 cal bullet, .357" in size. Does this make it more or less of a "man stopper" round? Who knows, but it is a powerful round to be sure. As others have stated, any decent Self Defense round in almost any caliber has the pontential to be a "man stopper" if the shot placement is right.
Last edited by 87hurricane; May 20th, 2013 at 06:37 PM.
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