Need some advice on "PPK-type" 380's....

[ethangsmith]

I've been doing a little of my own research online on this subject and I still have some questions that I would like you guys- whom I would consider knowledgeable in this realm- to help answer. Let's start from the beginning.....

I bought a Ruger SR9C pistol a few months ago for self-defense and concealed carry for myself and my wife. While it is an absolute pleasure to shoot and has been flawless for us, it is also "useless" to us. You see, both of us are thin and tall and there is no way we can CC the Ruger and it's quite uncomfortable and large, and a bit heavy. I bought an FEG PA-63 chambered in 9x18 "Makarov" from a friend and after some work has become a fun and very accurate gun. This gun fits us better and I honestly love the "PPK style" of it. This all being said, I've been looking at other PPK-type guns for my home defense and conceal carry option for my wife and I. It seems 380 seems to be the standard for these guns. I've read dozens of reviews on the Walther PPK and the Bersa Thunder 380. It seems both have ups and downs in design and function. So here's where the questions come:

1. I know the "Is 380 big enough for defense?" argument and I know it will rage on forever. I also know most people get pretty scared when any firearm is brandished. Is there really going to be that big a difference between the 9 and 380 cartridge? If I recall, the 380 is just a shortened 9 more or less?
2. Should I go cheap and buy the seemingly very-reliable Bersa or save up and buy a Walther? It seems there is a lot of debate on this subject and I'd like to hear from Bersa and Walther owners.
3. How does the price and availability of 380 compare with 9mm? Seems like it's cheaper but less available right now. Will this continue to be the case?
4. Are there other reliable guns chambered in other sizes that are based on this "PPK design" or at least in comparable size. What about the Ruger LC9? Is that a nice gun?

Let me make this clear I don't want this to turn into another "Is 380 enough" thread, but I do want some input from shooters of 380 and other rounds on their basic feelings about it.


Thanks all for the help!

[87hurricane]

If you're looking for a .380, then the LCP is what you'd want, the LC9 is the 9mm version, and a little bigger. If you're willing to expand into the 9mm range, there are alot of other choices to consider, but most are slightly bigger than their .380 conterparts. I've heard alot of good things about the Bersa, but I've never actually messed with one. As far as the PPK, if its good enough for Bond.....I'm not a huge fan of .380s, but not because of its lack of firepower, there are some pretty good self defense rounds out there now. My biggest gripe on the .380 is that it is essentially a smaller less powerful 9mm that costs more than a 9mm. I would not feel undergunned carrying a .380, or a .38 special for that matter.

[Jhaydeno]

I had a walther ppk and sold it. It was expensive to shoot and the small thin blackstrap made it very uncomfortable for the wife to shoot. A .380 and a 9 are essentially the same size. At least look at a flat stack 9, like a Sig 239, before buying anything. I am also tall and skinny and I can comfortably conceal a flat stack 9 in a good leather pancake holster.

[kel ruger man]

I wouldn't buy either, If that's the type you want I would go with a cz 83 or 82. the bersa is an average gun and the newer walther is not as nice as the german made. they are over priced for what they are. nothing wrong with the 380 but the "walther" style is not a light gun, and the bersa....I wouldn't own. I have had and carried both. my ppk was the older model, shot well but couldn't hold a candle to the cz. do yourself a favor if your both small, go buy a ruger lcp and forget about it. they are small, light and very reliable. I am not bashing the other guns, but you wanted opinions from real life owners...that was my opinion. even the beretta tom cat is a better choice, very very accurate and easy to carry.

[Dave_n]

I have the German made PPK/S in 380 plus a couple of CZ 82s. Of the three, the 82s are nice weapons and you can get 9 Mak in good defense rounds. My Walther has been worked on and is utterly reliable, but then I have a good supply of 0.380 rounds. You might want to look for a S/H S&W 3913 or 3914. DA/SA, 9 mm and accurate. Often reckoned to be the best single stack 9mm for carry. But then I do not buy Combat Tupperware, these are metal (alloy frames, steel slide). Dave_n

[ethangsmith]

All good information. I was unaware that the 380 round is actually more expensive or equal in price to the 9. That makes it certainly not economically viable. I've already got the 9 and 600 rounds of ammo. Why spend more money on a smaller, less powerful round?

I also did some measurements. Using the dimensions listed on the Bersa site, my Ruger SR9C is actually the same size as the Bersa, which is odd because the Ruger feels so heavy and cumbersome. Maybe it's the way I'm trying to carry it??? Where is a good position for a skinny tall dude to carry a gun?

[cruzans]

I have a PPK, older one. Nice gun, but heavy and not thrilled in general with it. As you've heard, 380 usually runs more than 9 and is also usually the first to be out of stock. I have heard decent things about Bersa, but don't own one. If you want to go compact 9, how about the Kahr? I have the higher end K9 and love it, and I have heard mostly good about the cw or cm 9 and you can get them new around $400 or less. The LCP is the premier cc piece in my opinion (380), but not a range gun - very snappy! A little pricier is the Sig P238 (380)- but if you are not comfortable carrying a single action, it wouldn't be for you ( you did not give a preference, so not sure ). I really like mine for cc. CZ82's are nice, but I find them a little bulky for cc. Best bet as always, handle as many as you can Good luck!

[Armor Snail]

Why not use the FEG? You can get jhp ammo for it. Has a touch more power than a .380. It will carry very well.

Now to answer your question. The nicest of that style is the CZ83. Carry condition 1 or 2. 13+1 capacity. The Sig 232 is a great gun also and is second only because of the limited capacity of being a single stack.

If you want to buy another gun I would buy a CZ82(and then you will become a CZ addict) and carry that. 9x18(Makarov) like I said has more oomph than 9x17(.380). That way you also will share caliber with the FEG.

Get some Marschals and possibly Cerakoted(if the finish is rough) and it will be one sweet carry gun.
http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=FEG-models

[SwampFoxZ71]

I have 2 Walthers, both in 32 ACP. One is a blued German PPK and the other is a stainless Interarms PPK/S. The PPK/S was my first CC gun. Best place I found to carry it was the small of my back with a pancake flat leather holster.

Both of my 32's are a pleasure to shoot and each have been flawless. I know alot of people will diss the 32ACP, but it was a cartridge invented by John Browning and nobody can argue that he didn't know what he was doing. At anything under 21 feet, legal self defense range, I have no doubt 32ACP will do the job.

And to be fair, while the .380 PPK may be a Bond clone, if you truly want a Bond gun, it must be in 32ACP.

If you don't mind the recoil out of the LCP, it would be a good choice. They're well-made, accurate and reliable. We had one but sold it. It was a good carry option but after 50 rounds it begins to fatigue your hand. After 100, your hand begins to hurt. One other nice thing about them is the Kel-Tec side clip for the P32/P3AT will fit on them so you can carry without a holster. I would recommend the LCP but it's not for everyone.

Then again, what I carry is not for everyone either, but it's with me everywhere I go, on my person and never weighs me down. This, of course, is unlike most of my other friends who 'carry' and leave the 9mm, 40s&w, .38 or .45acp in their car/truck all the time.

Me: "Where's your gun?"

Them: "In my truck. If I need it, I'll just get it from there."

Me: "What good does that do you in the movie theater or restaurant you're in?"

Update: If you are serious about either a PPK or PPK/S, recommend an older one either made in Germany or one made by Interarms. While the Smith-Wesson ones seem to be okay, I've just read enough from others to stay away from them.

[ethangsmith]

The FEG is a fun gun, but I worry about the soft aluminum frame and its longevity. I notice sometimes when I'm done shooting, there are very fine metal flakes in the friction area. Is this normal?? How reliable and durable are the FEG's? I can't find much info on them as it seems most of it is on the Makarovs instead. Also, what is the future of availability of the 9x18 round? Will it get more expensive and rare as there are pretty much no current guns that even shoot this round???