Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wayne, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLab5 View Post
    Costs seem reasonable...but what is the one time $150 for?
    That is an initiation fee. It's a way of helping to pay for all the improvements that have been made to the club over the past years. Things like the improvements that have been made to the rifle range, the new outdoor pistol range, new storage facilities on the ranges etc.

    For those who have commented on the dated facilities - this has been recognized and the club is in the planning stages for enlarging and modernizing the club house. This project will also include an expansion of the indoor range with a new ventilation system and new bathrooms. Projects like this take time. A lot of time and money are devoted to getting all the necessary approvals from the various gov't. entities before such a project can begin.

    There seems to be some confusion regarding the NRA basic pistol and personal protection courses offered. You only have to take these courses if you wish to shoot with the action pistol group or do action pistol shooting on our ranges. No courses are required for normal pistol shooting on our ranges. Just pass the basic pistol qualification which is 9 out of 10 hits on an approx. 8.5x10 target @ 10yds. and exhibit safe gun handling skills. Not very difficult. If you don't pass this test, you can get free one on one instruction at the monthly pistol clinic. Instructors will work with you to help you get qualified.
    Last edited by Labman; January 7th, 2014 at 01:09 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Norristown, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by Labman View Post
    There seems to be some confusion regarding the NRA basic pistol and personal protection courses offered. You only have to take these courses if you wish to shoot with the action pistol group or do action pistol shooting on our ranges. No courses are required for normal pistol shooting on our ranges. Just pass the basic pistol qualification which is 9 out of 10 hits on an approx. 8.5x10 target @ 10yds. and exhibit safe gun handling skills. Not very difficult. If you don't pass this test, you can get free one on one instruction at the monthly pistol clinic. Instructors will work with you to help you get qualified.
    I read (several times) the rules of this club, since I've been looking for a range that's safer than SGL's. However, each time I read them, and your reply above, I can't help but wonder if I'm mis-interpreting the written rules or reading more into them than what's there.

    I'm a cowboy action shooter. I shoot six guns loaded with 5 rounds each, one in each holster, gunfighter style. That means two guns out at the same time, cocked with the thumbs on the appropriate hand, since they're single action. I can empty my two guns on 12" targets at 25 yards with every round hitting the paper in under 10 seconds. In CAS, there is no shooting while moving. In fact, there is an automatic match disqualification if you move your feet while there is a round under the hammer.

    The way I understand the club rules, I'd need to take (every year) a course that is designed for semi automatic pistols being shot on the move after a draw from a concealed holster because I want to shoot at full race speed after a draw from my exposed belt sixgun holsters. Even if I don't want to draw, I still need to take the course because I want to shoot at full race speed.

    Is that a correct interpretation of the rules?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Montco
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigInPa View Post
    I read (several times) the rules of this club, since I've been looking for a range that's safer than SGL's. However, each time I read them, and your reply above, I can't help but wonder if I'm mis-interpreting the written rules or reading more into them than what's there.

    I'm a cowboy action shooter. I shoot six guns loaded with 5 rounds each, one in each holster, gunfighter style. That means two guns out at the same time, cocked with the thumbs on the appropriate hand, since they're single action. I can empty my two guns on 12" targets at 25 yards with every round hitting the paper in under 10 seconds. In CAS, there is no shooting while moving. In fact, there is an automatic match disqualification if you move your feet while there is a round under the hammer.

    The way I understand the club rules, I'd need to take (every year) a course that is designed for semi automatic pistols being shot on the move after a draw from a concealed holster because I want to shoot at full race speed after a draw from my exposed belt sixgun holsters. Even if I don't want to draw, I still need to take the course because I want to shoot at full race speed.

    Is that a correct interpretation of the rules?
    There is a 1 second between shots rule in place for the pistol ranges. The rules for obtaining the "Action or Holster Qualification" state that you must contact the pistol chairman. I do not believe you have to take a course each year, but you would have to re-qualify for the action/holster each year.

    http://lprgc.org/new/wp-content/uplo...nal-120111.pdf

    http://lprgc.org/new/wp-content/uplo...ange-Rules.pdf

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Montco, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLab5 View Post
    I have read some negative posts on this forum about the way people have been treated when inquiring information. I emailed requesting some information on the club, but got no response....should I see that as a red flag? Is it possible for someone to have a tour of the club range and grounds and talk to someone about what the club offers.

    Thank you for your time.

    Cheryl
    Blacklab,
    I would hope that the lack of email response is not a sign. The new membership chairman is very conscientious and I am surprised he didn't get back to you. Which email did you send it to?

    For a tour, I would suggest you could come out on a Friday trap shoot night, ask the person running the trap check in desk. They will find a member to give you a tour of the clubhouse. Of course, since it is night time, you wouldn't be able to see the outdoor range, just the indoor range (be sure to have eyes and ears).

    Another option is to come out during a scheduled weekend event, and try to find someone there to show you around, although some of those events can be pretty hectic. Or, one of the members in this thread could meet you there some time. I am at the club a couple times a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by comsubin61 View Post
    Anyway good luck with your choice maybe things have changed there, but I would be surprised. I go to French creek, I have to pay by the hour but at least I can enjoy it.
    Comsubin61, if you don't mind my asking, when did these events take place?


    Quote Originally Posted by CraigInPa View Post
    I read (several times) the rules of this club, since I've been looking for a range that's safer than SGL's. However, each time I read them, and your reply above, I can't help but wonder if I'm mis-interpreting the written rules or reading more into them than what's there.

    I'm a cowboy action shooter. I shoot six guns loaded with 5 rounds each, one in each holster, gunfighter style. That means two guns out at the same time, cocked with the thumbs on the appropriate hand, since they're single action. I can empty my two guns on 12" targets at 25 yards with every round hitting the paper in under 10 seconds. In CAS, there is no shooting while moving. In fact, there is an automatic match disqualification if you move your feet while there is a round under the hammer.

    The way I understand the club rules, I'd need to take (every year) a course that is designed for semi automatic pistols being shot on the move after a draw from a concealed holster because I want to shoot at full race speed after a draw from my exposed belt sixgun holsters. Even if I don't want to draw, I still need to take the course because I want to shoot at full race speed.

    Is that a correct interpretation of the rules?
    I would say that you have a unique skill set that is not directly addressed by the rules (there are no rules yet covering muzzleloaders either). I don't know anyone that does CAS but I know that there are at least two members that are into it. If enough people show an interest, they will be able to get their own rules entries. If I had read your post earlier, I would have asked the pistol chairman for his opinion. Ten shots in 10 seconds seems fine to me, rules wise.

    In the 3 years of my membership, there have been a number of favorable rule changes that were proposed at general meetings. And in those three years, I have also never witnessed anyone draw and shoot. I'm sure someone does it, I've just never seen it. I suspect they don't in front of others, but rather just at their practice sessions and in competition. The club is very big on competitions and organized shoots.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wayne, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by iamtommyboy View Post
    There is a 1 second between shots rule in place for the pistol ranges. The rules for obtaining the "Action or Holster Qualification" state that you must contact the pistol chairman. I do not believe you have to take a course each year, but you would have to re-qualify for the action/holster each year.

    http://lprgc.org/new/wp-content/uplo...nal-120111.pdf

    http://lprgc.org/new/wp-content/uplo...ange-Rules.pdf
    This is correct. You do not have to take the courses annually. Once and you're done. There is however an annual qualification to maintain your action/holster qualification. There are two levels of qualification -Holster and Action. Holster qualification allows you to draw from a holster but you are not permitted to shoot while moving. Action qualification allows you to draw from a holster and shoot while moving. It's the same shooting test. If you score high enough you get action qualification. Put all 42 rounds on target but not enough in the "A" zone and you get holster qualification.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by comsubin61 View Post
    while you make a lot of sense, unfortunaly it does not apply to this location. First you can be on the range minding your business and someone approaches you wanting to show you how to do things.
    I went there about a dozen of times to shoot and almost everytime there was someone there telling me how great the courses are and how I would benefit from taking them. Also there seem to be the core group and then all the others. I was shooting inside once when this guy walks in and tells us that he in on the board of directors and that he needs to close the range because he was going to do some testing for some qualifications that he was taking that weekend.
    Another time someone yelled at me because I double tapped the target on the open range.

    My joining the club was not about having to fight to make changes to it, I honestly don't care one bit about who owns or what they do there, I joined because they have shooting ranges and I like to go shooting. Period. I do not partecipate in any events, or parties or whatever. I paid them to let me use their space. They can keep all the competitions, courses, medalls or whatever. I am not interested, I have never in my civilian life competed in any shooting events. Don't need them or want them. I just want to go shooting my own way and so far FC works for me. Maybe some day I'll find another club that leaves people to their own thing, with safety in mind of course.
    The by-laws are 63 pages, that should tell you something right there. While I believe anytime you're using firearms safety is paramount, there is such a thing as over thinking it. If you've had to create a new 'safety rule' because of one person, perhaps the person is the issue and NOT the rule.

    I have looked into joining but the inflexibility of certain things will keep me from joining. I will leave it at that.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Montco
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFoo View Post
    The by-laws are 63 pages, that should tell you something right there. While I believe anytime you're using firearms safety is paramount, there is such a thing as over thinking it. If you've had to create a new 'safety rule' because of one person, perhaps the person is the issue and NOT the rule.

    I have looked into joining but the inflexibility of certain things will keep me from joining. I will leave it at that.
    Realize, of course, that the by laws have an individual section for each range/activity available at the club. This club has, from what I can tell, everything you would want. Many of these pages are redundant / repeat the same rules, just for a different range. This is necessary because someone will do something wrong on the rifle range and then say, "well, it wasn't in the rules!" Unfortunately, there are people out there who aren't smart enough or will try to find every little loophole, so things have to be spelled out word for word, letter by letter for them.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by iamtommyboy View Post
    Realize, of course, that the by laws have an individual section for each range/activity available at the club. This club has, from what I can tell, everything you would want. Many of these pages are redundant / repeat the same rules, just for a different range. This is necessary because someone will do something wrong on the rifle range and then say, "well, it wasn't in the rules!" Unfortunately, there are people out there who aren't smart enough or will try to find every little loophole, so things have to be spelled out word for word, letter by letter for them.
    Ahh....you've hit home on my point.

    Fix the people not the rules.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Montco, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFoo View Post
    Ahh....you've hit home on my point.

    Fix the people not the rules.
    And how would you propose to fix the people?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Lower providence Rod and gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by Remington788 View Post
    And how would you propose to fix the people?
    Simple. You cant fix stupid......so they would no longer be members.


    Your other issue is that you have members signing for people they dont even know. So instead of it being a "precheck" or "endorsement" you really have just made the members signature a formality. Which, for me, means the club is more interested in gaining revenue of new members rather than only allow people that are know to be safe and trustworthy.

    YMMV

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