Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #331
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    Springtown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Greetings,

    Regarding:

    <<<<<Dillon had filed suit against the city in May, claiming the ordinance banning guns in city parks violates the right to bear arms under Section 21 of the state Constitution and the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as well as the state crimes code. He asked an Erie County judge to invalidate the ordinance and stop Erie officials from enforcing it.

    Erie County President Judge Ernest J. DiSantis Jr. refused to grant a preliminary injunction preventing the city from enforcing the ordinance, and Commonwealth Court rejected Dillon's appeal.
    >>>>>>

    Does anyone know the status of the case since the judge refused? Is the City or Mr Dillon pursuing the Erie preemption violation to a higher/different court? Seems that if this goes wrong the flood gates could open up across the state against us. Thanks for any info.

    Regards, Jim

  2. #332
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    Aug 2012
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    Oil City, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Take a look at his Facebook page

    https://www.facebook.com/OpenCarryPennsylvania

  3. #333
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    (Lawrence County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    I don't have very high hopes for this case, the handling of everything seems to be half-assed at best. From legal letters being submitted with tons of simple grammatical errors, to zero updates for weeks at a time while asking for more contributions, to a legal firm that does not even acknowledge receipt of citations and paperwork submitted by their clients. The whole thing has a bad smell to it.

    If this ruling goes against us and municipalities are all of the sudden allowed to post property in their control as "gun free zones" there are going to be tons of pissed off firearm owners. This will be especially true if it is due to the ineptness of the parties involved. A negative ruling could affect much more than just parks, we could be looking at parking facilities, athletic fields, borough buildings, hell, who's to say they wouldn't try to use it to prohibit carry on sidewalks and streets? I just don't have a good feeling about the way this is being handled but keep hoping there is much going on behind the scenes that we aren't privy to.

  4. #334
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerkin View Post
    If this ruling goes against us and municipalities are all of the sudden allowed to post property in their control as "gun free zones" there are going to be tons of pissed off firearm owners. This will be especially true if it is due to the ineptness of the parties involved. A negative ruling could affect much more than just parks, we could be looking at parking facilities, athletic fields, borough buildings, hell, who's to say they wouldn't try to use it to prohibit carry on sidewalks and streets? I just don't have a good feeling about the way this is being handled but keep hoping there is much going on behind the scenes that we aren't privy to.
    If that happens then we engage in mass civil disobedience, because at that point our government is out of control.

  5. #335
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by freesoul View Post
    If that happens then we engage in mass civil disobedience, because at that point our government is out of control.
    I would hope that there's been more thought put into the details of this "mass civil disobedience" than there seems to have been put into the unfunded Erie scheme.

    Because there's precedent for this, and it didn't end well for the protesters.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

    The tax protesting game also has its share of players who were isolated and destroyed, one at a time.

    Long ago, I pointed out that the legal system is not a game, certainly not an inexpensive game. If you want to push back against oppressive government until it breaks, you have to make sure you have the considerable means to keep pushing, that you won't run out of cash or patience, your spouse won't leave you, your job pressures won't require you to fold. If you create the test case and then you lose, you put us in a worse position than if you hadn't started it, to say nothing of how you'll set your personal situation back.

    I was called an elitist, some here suggesting that I was saying that only the wealthy deserved to have 2nd Amendment rights. That's absurd. But Rosa Parks wasn't really some little old lady who just got tired of giving up her seat, she was a dedicated activist and she had the civil rights groups behind her, with a strategy and a war chest lined up, before she staged her bus rebellion.

    The same happened in the Scopes "monkey trial", he didn't teach the evolution lesson and then just get caught up (in fact, he never taught the lesson at all, he was too busy with the pre-planning and coordinating the legal case.) These success stories all required intensive pre-planning by experienced operatives, none of them were ad hoc, half-baked Andy Hardy fiascos that began with "I've got some costumes, your dad has a barn, let's put on a show!"

    The approach of "ready - fire- aim" has a bad track record, you can't rely on strangers kicking in hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire experienced counsel and take a case where it needs to go, with proper briefs and good research, and the careful choosing of venue and facts. You have to be prepared to go to war, you have to know your Sun Tzu and beat the enemy before the first punch is thrown, and THEN you stage your provocation.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #336
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Cherry Tree, Pennsylvania
    (Indiana County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post
    Take a look at his Facebook page

    https://www.facebook.com/OpenCarryPennsylvania
    Since I don't do Facebook, it won't let me look.

  7. #337
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Oil City, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Since I don't do Facebook, it won't let me look.
    I posted a message on his Facebook page letting him know about the issues raised here. I don't know any of the people involved. but i do believe that this is an important fight.

  8. #338
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim-analog View Post
    Greetings,

    Regarding:

    <<<<<Dillon had filed suit against the city in May, claiming the ordinance banning guns in city parks violates the right to bear arms under Section 21 of the state Constitution and the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as well as the state crimes code. He asked an Erie County judge to invalidate the ordinance and stop Erie officials from enforcing it.

    Erie County President Judge Ernest J. DiSantis Jr. refused to grant a preliminary injunction preventing the city from enforcing the ordinance, and Commonwealth Court rejected Dillon's appeal.
    >>>>>>

    Does anyone know the status of the case since the judge refused? Is the City or Mr Dillon pursuing the Erie preemption violation to a higher/different court? Seems that if this goes wrong the flood gates could open up across the state against us. Thanks for any info.

    Regards, Jim

    I'm still not 100% on what all is going on. I am just a lisason from there to here. Since I am on here, and other pro 2a boards, and I spend too much time online.

    As far as I know, there is a hearing the 19th for the citations that were issued for the last rally.

    I'll have to see if Justin can send me more information about what the PASC said about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by jerkin View Post
    I don't have very high hopes for this case, the handling of everything seems to be half-assed at best. From legal letters being submitted with tons of simple grammatical errors, to zero updates for weeks at a time while asking for more contributions, to a legal firm that does not even acknowledge receipt of citations and paperwork submitted by their clients. The whole thing has a bad smell to it.

    If this ruling goes against us and municipalities are all of the sudden allowed to post property in their control as "gun free zones" there are going to be tons of pissed off firearm owners. This will be especially true if it is due to the ineptness of the parties involved. A negative ruling could affect much more than just parks, we could be looking at parking facilities, athletic fields, borough buildings, hell, who's to say they wouldn't try to use it to prohibit carry on sidewalks and streets? I just don't have a good feeling about the way this is being handled but keep hoping there is much going on behind the scenes that we aren't privy to.
    It is already fairly certain that the court case in Erie for the citations is going to be lost. Since they have already sided with Erie on the city level. At least for the courts. It has been said that if that happens, there will be appeals filed.

    I agree that I have some reservations about the way it is being handled. Especially by Joshua Prince. I won't go into details. And I still think it is great that he is helping. But just to get this far, and to have no real weight behind it yet? And I understand the PASC hasn't said much on it. Even though they gave Erie only a few days to speak about it. The updates themselves, part of it I will admit is my fault. There are things that Justin doesn't want shared, and I agreed to only speak about what I have been given the "OK" to talk about.

    I'm just the messenger, since he was a member here, and got banned quite some time ago.
    I'm so fast, I can bump fire a bolt action.

  9. #339
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Oil City, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Email from Justin Dillon:

    Hey everyone I am asking for you to continue to support our fight with the City of Erie. Josh Prince will be on his way back up here next week to stand with us again for round two of the fight we are in with the City over the preemption law and that law states this...§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.

    (a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

    The City of Erie are trying to tell us we can not have a open carry or a cc rally in Perry Square because of a City ordinance that stats this.... Hunting and firearms. No person in a park shall hunt, trap or pursue wild life at any time. No person shall use, carry or possess firearms of any descriptions, or air-rifles ... bows and arrows, slings, paint ball weapons or any other forms of weapons potentially inimical to wild life and dangerous to human safety, or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into park area from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.

    We have been fighting this ridiculous rule for over a few months after the City did not want me to have a gun rally in there down town park after I had over 3 others in the same park with no issue. My mayor is part of the mayor of New York crew of mayors not for guns. This has be a battle I been fighting as long as I have support for it. The NRA have Chip in 4,000 Already and with out that we still would of not been able to fight this fight. As soon as this story came out a guy named David stepped up and gave 2,000 to the fight. We have raised just over 1,000 on the Gofundme.com site. I looked into it I have over 800 of it after fees they take from it. I make ZERO bucks from this. So far my bill for this fight has ran me over 14,000 and will be going up in the next week once Our lawyer makes his trip back here to stand with us in the court over when we had a rally still in Perry Square out of 80 people there only 30 carried a real gun in the park were we knew we will get fined. We did this due to the City of Erie trying to break State LAW. For doing this 8 out of 30 got fines mailed to them and the fine can go as high as $300 per-person. We have a court hearing coming up on Aug 19th for that part. This case is far from over and I refuse to give up even as stress and other things have taken me to the brink. But it is only making me stronger. We need your help with the lawyer fees 100% goes to the fight. Anything not used will be put into a fund for other cases. We need you to share the hell out of this so others can help and we get this out there. Also the GOA is looking into this case to but due to them eye balls deep in cases it may take a long time to hear back from them. So if you can please step up now and donate. There is many ways to send money ether send it to Josh Prince at... Joshua Prince, Esq.
    Firearms Industry Consulting Group
    a division of Prince Law Offices, P.C.
    646 Lenape Rd
    Bechtelsville, PA 19505

    Also may go to my go fund me page at...http://www.gofundme.com/2wowpw
    Also in person with a master card ETC. And I can take cards over the phone and yes it is https security.
    For more info just ask thanks and please share this and post it in your time line we need your help please...

    to be honest i don't agree with everything this guy has done. however with that said. I do believe in this fight. sure this may have not been the best time, and he should have made sure he was more equipped to deal with the cost. But hindsight is 20/20 and we are here now. this is a cause i believe in, and we should fight.

  10. #340
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Franklin, Pennsylvania
    (Venango County)
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    Default Re: Issues with a rally this coming June in Erie.

    Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post

    to be honest i don't agree with everything this guy has done. however with that said. I do believe in this fight. sure this may have not been the best time, and he should have made sure he was more equipped to deal with the cost. But hindsight is 20/20 and we are here now. this is a cause i believe in, and we should fight.
    I'm on the same page. I don't agree 100%, but I give him credit. He stands up, and is willing to have his voice heard. Every few days he gives me a call, or messages me over facebook. He vents a bit, if there are any updates he gives them. And then we discuss things for the future. We are looking into litter walks, car washes. Really anything to get open carry out in the open in that area.
    I'm so fast, I can bump fire a bolt action.

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