what does the ATF actually do/review with re: NFA transfers?

[BearTHIS]

Does anyone really know any details or is this just a black box; send in papers wait an arbitrary amount of time to receive the stamp?

I find it amazing that I can run a credit check that will show every line of credit I've ever been associated with in my life in less than 1 minute, I can search nation wide court documents for myself in minutes, police can run plates in seconds, employers can run criminal background checks in about a day... Yet the ATF needs multiple months for their due diligence? WTF are they doing that takes so long? Institutions with a lot on the line have clearinghouses that process infinitely more requests than even the peak amount of NFA transfers. ATF seems pretty quick at performing all their other tasks, how bad are they just sandbagging us on NFA transfers?

[BrassPie]

Check out this Youtube.com link from Last Year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VTZO3pVsAA

Now THAT's a Nasty Backlog.

[cds_arms]

That push a lot of paper with very few people.

X number of forms / (Y hours in a day worked multiplied by Z number of workers) = NFA Mess

[Steelblitz]

Does anyone really know any details or is this just a black box; send in papers wait an arbitrary amount of time to receive the stamp?

I find it amazing that I can run a credit check that will show every line of credit I've ever been associated with in my life in less than 1 minute, I can search nation wide court documents for myself in minutes, police can run plates in seconds, employers can run criminal background checks in about a day... Yet the ATF needs multiple months for their due diligence? WTF are they doing that takes so long? Institutions with a lot on the line have clearinghouses that process infinitely more requests than even the peak amount of NFA transfers. ATF seems pretty quick at performing all their other tasks, how bad are they just sandbagging us on NFA transfers?

Backgrounds checks are not the holdup. They are understaffed in regards to examiners. Although they do have quite a few in training at the moment I believe, so times should shorten up late in the year I would guess. They spend little actual time on the forms. It's the form sitting in a box for several months until the examiner can get to it that is the big delay.

[bug]

It has always been my understanding that the FBI fingerprint check is the major time constraint. In fact, a simple NICS should suffice.

Bob D

[MikeB0]

It can't be the Fingerprint check or only that at least. All my NFA toys 10+ and adding every year are owned by a corp - no finger prints. The times have always varied, but have actually increased on average.

[GunLawyer001]

I'll say this, for what it's worth: The system has worked since 1934 to prevent almost every registrant from criminally misusing NFA firearms, with one or two exceptions (the cop in Dayton, and I heard something happened in Puerto Rico).

If the goal of the NFA is to prevent crimes with registered guns, then something's working. Maybe it's the relatively small population of NFA owners, maybe it's the cost in recent years.

I wouldn't take this point too far, I wouldn't suggest that the Feds extend the NFA process to all handguns, for example (although this was exactly the intent of the 1934 NFA, to cover all handguns as well as the MG's and DD's and silencers, which is why "concealable" SBR's and SBS's are regulated, even though handguns never made the final cut of the law.)

If they did extend the NFA process to all handguns, we'd probably still have about the same amount of handgun crime, because a lot of the crime is with stolen handguns, or straw-purchased guns that are claimed to be stolen.

It's just an observation. Hundreds of thousands of NFA items, almost no crime with them.

[WVneighbor]

Right now, the biggest reasons for the backlog is volume and the whole branch probably have 75-100 people, which included the administrators and supervisors who don't do the actual work that gets an application processed.

I don't know anyone personally who works there, but the people I know who work at the tracing center (co-located with the people who do the NFA stuff) pretty much agree.

[twency]

I'll say this, for what it's worth: The system has worked since 1934 to prevent almost every registrant from criminally misusing NFA firearms, with one or two exceptions (the cop in Dayton, and I heard something happened in Puerto Rico).

If the goal of the NFA is to prevent crimes with registered guns, then something's working. Maybe it's the relatively small population of NFA owners, maybe it's the cost in recent years.

I wouldn't take this point too far, I wouldn't suggest that the Feds extend the NFA process to all handguns, for example (although this was exactly the intent of the 1934 NFA, to cover all handguns as well as the MG's and DD's and silencers, which is why "concealable" SBR's and SBS's are regulated, even though handguns never made the final cut of the law.)

If they did extend the NFA process to all handguns, we'd probably still have about the same amount of handgun crime, because a lot of the crime is with stolen handguns, or straw-purchased guns that are claimed to be stolen.

It's just an observation. Hundreds of thousands of NFA items, almost no crime with them.

I figure the primary reason that NFA items are rarely used in crimes is a combination of the extra monetary cost of such items, the bureaucratic cost (time, effort) of entry to the system, and the fact that bad guys have no strong incentive to register their guns.

According to high school kids interviewed on an episode of This American Life, in Chicago (with some of America's strictest gun control laws) a dirty handgun is obtainable on the streets for $100 or less (and obviously no background check). Who's going to take the time and cost to register guns which are just going to be used in crimes anyway?

Legally registered NFA items are rarely used in crimes. But that's no more surprising than that holders of a state's LTCF/CCW/CCP/whatever are dramatically less likely to use a firearm to commit crimes than unlicensed carriers. You have a self-selected group of law-abiding individuals who are already trying to do the right thing. Of course they'll commit many fewer crimes.

Show me that the NFA process substantially reduces overall crime, rather than just that it allows a group of law-abiding citizens to self-select to continue following the law in a particular way, and then I'll at least consider a utilitarian argument for a registration system.

[Kramer]

Show me that the NFA process substantially reduces overall crime, rather than just that it allows a group of law-abiding citizens to self-select to continue following the law in a particular way, and then I'll at least consider a utilitarian argument for a registration system.

What you would have to do is research crime with NFA type of firearms before the the NFA of 1934 was enacted and then research NFA type of crimes since 1934 and then compare.

There was probably not a tremendous amount of crime with NFA type of firearms before the NFA 1934, but enough to do a "knee jerk" reaction back then when something bad happened like we have seen in the last few decades.

Realistically you could blame Prohibition for the NFA, since illegal alcohol gave rise to the Gangster era and their need for weapons to secure their turf.