WASR 3 (adjusting the gas piston)

[Sinatra]

Gentlemen, I need your help. I have about 400 rds. of Wolf 62 gr. FMJ (black box) ammo. I tried shooting it in my WASR 3. I had a gunsmith replace the springs on the extractor. It was a jam-o-matic, but now shoots fine (weak double coil extractor spring).

Well, it shoots REM UMC 55 gr. non-stop, without any issues, but after about 60 rds. of Wolf 62 gr. FMJ (black box) ammo, I experience nothing but FTE's after every round! A guy at the range today said something about adjusting the gas block/port because it was "too hot"....?? Any clue as to what he was talking about or what I should do? Thanks.

[nijwnfi]

How old is that Wolf ammo? If it's steel case lacquer coated, the lacquer may gum up the chamber. Clean it good. I've never heard of adjustments, if true, I'd like to hear more.

[Sinatra]

It's the new stuff (as far as I know). I just bought it within the last 6 months. I've heard about Wolf and how dirty it is, so that would make sense. However, when the guy at the range mentioned adjusting the "gas bleed" of the gas block, I was kind surprised. ('d never head of that before and couldn't find anything on it on the internet.

[Dredly]

can you give more info about the FTE that is occurring? is the round being pulled out of the chamber and just not exiting all the way? no ejection at all? not cycling?

Not ejecting fully could be dirty or incorrectly sized springs in there,

Not even pulling the round out could be a serious blockage or massive pressure leak, or something is seriously stuck

Not cycling fully (ie it barely clears the round but doesn't pick up the next) is probably pressure too.

I haven't played with a WASR3 in particular but if there is a LOT of crap in it that may be the issue? when was the last time it was cleaned fully? (including the piston tube and the gas block (or whatever its called) from the barrel?

If there are WASR10 parts in there they may be a little to heavy duty for the smaller rounds?

once again I'm just guessing.

could also be the ammo :P

[PA Rifleman]

...
Well, it shoots REM UMC 55 gr. non-stop, without any issues, but after about 60 rds. of Wolf 62 gr. FMJ (black box) ammo, I experience nothing but FTE's after every round! ...

Have you checked the chamber for lacquer buildup? If the Wolf ammo is painted, it can melt off the casing and accumulate int he chamber if hot enough.

[Dredly]

Have you checked the chamber for lacquer buildup? If the Wolf ammo is painted, it can melt off the casing and accumulate int he chamber if hot enough.

Do they still make the laquer crap? i thought they went all to the "new" shell design thats much more smooth and doesn't melt (or isn't supposed to)

[brian]

the black box is the new stuff. pretty sure the military classic stuff(camo box) is laquared.

[Sinatra]

can you give more info about the FTE that is occurring? is the round being pulled out of the chamber and just not exiting all the way? no ejection at all? not cycling?

Not ejecting fully could be dirty or incorrectly sized springs in there,

Not even pulling the round out could be a serious blockage or massive pressure leak, or something is seriously stuck

Not cycling fully (ie it barely clears the round but doesn't pick up the next) is probably pressure too.

I haven't played with a WASR3 in particular but if there is a LOT of crap in it that may be the issue? when was the last time it was cleaned fully? (including the piston tube and the gas block (or whatever its called) from the barrel?

If there are WASR10 parts in there they may be a little to heavy duty for the smaller rounds?

once again I'm just guessing.

could also be the ammo :P

A round will fire, but the casing will not eject. The magazine and bolt will chamber another round into the previously spent/jammed casing. I have to pull the mag, and let the casing and the now damaged unspent round out. This is getting old. I'm going to an outdoor range this weekend, and I'll take some breakfree to hose down the chamber and extractor once the jam session begins. Hopefully this will allow me to get keep shooting. I've heard of people shooting .223 Wolf all day long in their AR's, but my WASR 3 can't take much of it. The ammo is pretty cheap, so I'd love to keep using it. I only shoot brass cased ammo in my POF p-415. That rifle RAWKS, but the ammo ain't cheap.

Anyway, I want to know more about the whole adjustment of the gas port/block. This is news to me. Thanks guys!

[Willie D]

So the spent case is still fully chambered and then the next round is pushed into it?

Sounds like the bolt is cycling but extractor might not be gripping the case properly. Could be dirty, worn or the spring could be weak. Chamber could also have crud that the cases are sticking to.


I have no idea what "adjustments" you can do to an AK's gas system. Either it is working, blocked or leaking.

[PA Rifleman]

Agreed, the gas system on AKs isn't normally adjustable. The only two former E European rifles that have adjustable gas pressure you're likely to bump into are the SVDs (true SVDs & NDM-86s, not Romanian PSLs) and the W.W.II vintage SVT-38 & SVT-40 rifles.

The first place I'd have a look is the chamber. If it's running okay with one type of ammunition, and having a progressive extraction issue with another brand, something's happening with either the chamber or the extractor. If the extractor & spring are okay, check the chamber for deposits, burrs or machining marks.

If the bolt carrier is indeed picking up the next round & resetting the hammer irrespective of whether it successfully ejects the previous round or not, the cylinder pressure is fine.

Also examine the successfully ejected steel cased Wolf rounds, particularly those fired nearer the point at which the trouble started. Look for:

• Scoring or dents on the neck or the side of the case
• Metal flakes or other residue that doesn't look like "it belongs there"
• Smeared or melted paint or polymer coating
• Evidence of high extraction force where the extractor claw grabbed the rim
• Cracked necks
• Swelled cases near the rim

If in doubt, compare to a normally ejected round. Since you're asking about a WASR-3, I assume we're discussing .223/ 5.56mm. In that case, I'd take a few comparative measurements between batches of ammunition.

And this is a very interesting comment:

A round will fire, but the casing will not eject. The magazine and bolt will chamber another round into the previously spent/jammed casing. ...

If the bolt carrier is indeed picking up the next round & resetting the hammer irrespective of whether it successfully ejects the previous round or not, the cylinder pressure is fine. It also means the extractor is probably jumping over the rim. The problem is the extraction process. If this quote is correct, it means it's either ammunition or a chamber issue. If the gas pressure was too low, you'd have a symptom called short cycle, which means it would extract most of the time but fail to pick up a round. You'd pull the trigger and get a hammer "click" or nothing at all (depending on whether it has enough power to reset the hammer). When you pull the carrier back, you'll discover an empty chamber with ammunition remaining in the magazine.

The only two reasons for the symptoms I can think of is high required extraction force or low cylinder pressure.

• Normal pressure with high extraction force could be the result of chamber deposits, coatings on the ammunition casing causing sticking, or scoring/burrs in the chamber.
• Low cylinder pressure could be the result of: loose fitting or worn piston, oversized cylinder, cylinder-to-barrel leaks (leakage where it seats on the barrel), or gas port misalignment between the gas block and the barrel port.
• Mechanical issues-extractor or extractor spring problems, ammunition dimension variation, obstruction in the carrier recoil spring, etc. Maybe a shim under the extractor spring will hint whether more spring force will help.
• Ammunition problems-some of the polymer coated ammunition has been generating complaints, lot P 146-03 in particular. Try switching *back* to the UMC ammunition and see if the UMC has trouble, too. This would point to an ammunition problem, and I'd pay very close attention to the chamber.

Without seeing your example, all we can do is speculate. Since it seems to follow the ammunition, this really suggests the ammunition is part of the problem. When you switch back to UMC, does the symptom(s) disappear or remain? Are the ejected empties showing signs of high extraction force, like almost torn off rims?

Run a few tests, let us know the results. Bonus points for good, well-lit & properly-focussed pictures.