Automatic... semi-automatic... conversation.

[Asmodeus6]

There's a difference kids...

Had a conversation with a guy I've known a long time who's running for a small local office. We talked about some basic stuff, and I know who he's running against. Someone who should probably never hold a public office due to a plethora of reasons - many of which are face palm inducing.

I said he'd clearly have my vote. But one question. Where are you on guns? - I asked.

I don't have a problem with guns, I've even considered getting one recently.



Except the automatic - assault rifle ones. I asked my can't remember if it was brother / BIL etc what purpose they served or why he needed an assault weapon? I mean what good does it do?

(gasp - oh no... we were doing so well... )

Ok you mean machine guns.

Yeah.

Full auto machine guns?

Yeah.

Like the AR-15?

Yeah.

Those are semi-auto.

What?

Each trigger pull = one shot.

I thought you just held it down and it kept going. That's what everyone else seems to say / think.

No no no... Ok. The AR-15 is visually - as in it LOOKS like a machine gun the military uses. But it is just a copy. They are semi-auto. You could go down the street to Dicks and buy a wood stocked hunting rifle in the same caliber and it works the exact same way. One trigger pull - one bullet. There's a part in the gun that holds the hammer back until you release the trigger - put it forward, and then pull it again. If you don't release the trigger - the gun won't function until you do. I gestured with my hand so what I meant was very clear.

But I thought they were semi auto. You just can hold it back and it will go?

Nope. It's all bullshit. All of it. It shoots a very fast .22 caliber bullet (.223) that is used in a lot of normal looking hunting type rifles against varmints and things like that.

Ok so, the AR-15 isn't a machine gun, and semi-auto is just like any other gun, even ones used for hunting and home defense etc?

Exactly!

Hmm... I didn't know that. You know everything you see always leads you to believe they are machine guns.

I realize this, but - I do know a good bit about guns - and a lot of that has to do with headlines and hype.

I was certain my BIL / brother etc had one and it just kept going - like a machine gun though.

He may very well have a machine gun. You can buy them, it's extremely difficult - and because machine guns have been banned since 1986 - there are only so many in circulation. Which makes them VERY expensive...

Machine guns are banned?

Yes, and have been for nearly 30 years. In order to purchase one you have to pay the piper. An M16 - or a real machine gun can cost upwards of $12-15k. Because only ones made before 1986 and registered can be sold to the public. And even that requires ATF approval.

Wow! I know he didn't buy that. He just got it a year ago. He must have an AR-15. The semi-auto. Which you say is just one shot - not like a machine gun.

Nothing at all like a machine gun... Just looks like one. Cost's $700-1500 on average.

So what's all this stuff you see on the news then, Newton etc?

Bullshit. A flaming pile of bullshit. Made to look like they are doing something when in actuality they are just misrepresenting the guns to make them seem like more than they are - so it looks like they are doing something.

Wow... that's really disrespectful to, everyone. The families, and the people who have those rifles.

Yes... it really is.




I'll save you guys the back and forth but I took it another step forward. I went back to his point about owning a firearm for HD. Recommended an inexpensive strong box. And then discussed area's of his jurisdiction. Bringing the point back to a lot of break in's - junkies stealing pipes from homes and even area's that are known problems. Some of it he was aware of, some he wasn't. Including a personal situation.

I finished it off with, so... you see my point then.

He said he certainly did.

And I said that I hope that I explained things a little better than he had previously been led to believe - and he also said that I did, and that it made more sense now.


Really nice guy. Just misinformed about guns. I feel better after talking to him about it. I hope some of it sinks in. Although at no point did he seem standoffish, or try to end the conversation / or even zing me with anti rhetoric. So truly just think he was led to believe nonsense due to not being well versed on the subject.




It's still amazing to me how many people just do not understand how any of this stuff works. I avoided getting political or tinfoil hat about any of it. I never felt like I needed too. So imagine how many people who are walking around you in your daily life that don't have the first effing clue how any of this stuff works. Some of them run for office! Some of them will be on boards and it could very well effect YOU at some point.

The next time someone says something about those crazy's with automatic - semi-auto AR15's around him. He's going to roll his eyes. Maybe he'll say you know those aren't machine guns right? Right? And maybe they'll say - YES THEY ARE! They spray bullets! (Insert a bunch of anti-rhetoric) And he'll think to himself. Wow this person is an idiot!

Well... we can hope right?

[Joe Demko]

Something hard for those of us intensely interested in guns to grok is that guns just aren't important or interesting to many people. When we launch into what we consider fascinating and informative lectures on technical matters about guns, their eyes glaze over much as ours would if an enthusiast lectured us on the minutia of Hummel figurines. Nobody knows everything about everything. Be patient with people who don't know guns and keep the sneering superiority from your voice if you try to educate them. The OP did it right.

[dkf]

Often times the people that are so against guns (especially the AR15) and say how the laws should be are so ill informed it is pathetic.

I run into it myself.

I wish I could get a pre-ban M16 for $12k-$15k. Last one I saw for sale was $26k. Completely unobtainable for me.

You should have saw the look on my grandmother's face when I showed her my AR. I was somewhat surprised at her somewhat scared reaction.

[internet troll]

Something hard for those of us intensely interested in guns to grok is that guns just aren't important or interesting to many people. When we launch into what we consider fascinating and informative lectures on technical matters about guns, their eyes glaze over much as ours would if an enthusiast lectured us on the minutia of Hummel figurines. Nobody knows everything about everything. Be patient with people who don't know guns and keep the sneering superiority from your voice if you try to educate them. The OP did it right.

This^^^^^^^^^^

Props to the OP for taking the time to respectfully explain the difference. It does make a difference in the long run. I can't count the number of times I've had similar conversations with people who just know something to be true that's not. It's like most things, If you aren't passionate about it, there is a ton you think you know, vs. what you really do know. Most people have impression about guns and what they think the law should be, but have no idea how complex the laws are in reality.

And while I don't blame them for not knowing much about something they don't really care about, I do wish that they would take the time to learn more before further spreading misinformation and opining on the matter. So much of the antis arguments are predicated on misconceptions.

[Emptymag]

I would guess that a large percentage of those "opposed to firearms" feel that way based upon ignorance.
They simply don't know any better.


Hopefully you can get him to the range to complete his education.

[Keith A]

Someimes the info sinks in and sometimes people choose to remain willfully ignorant...depens how they are wired, I guess.

There was a guy at work going on about how you shouldn't be able to buy an AR 15 through the internet and have it sent to your house without any kind of background check whatsoever. I insisted that this was untrue and that one has to have the rifle shipped from the internet based company to an FFL dealer who conducts the background check and processes the paperwork, etc.

He insisted I was wrong. I offered to let him go to the website of his choice and order whatever he wanted and I would pay for it so he could see how the process works. I told him if he wasn't interested in owning a gun, we could then go to a dealer and have the gun transferred to me. I would pay the transfer fees and give him some extra money for the hassle.

He refused the offer and still insists that I'm wrong.

[MuzzleFlash]

Except the automatic - assault rifle ones. I asked my can't remember if it was brother / BIL etc what purpose they served or why he needed an assault weapon? I mean what good does it do?

It increases the amount of ammo being eaten up, which translates to ammo and reloading sales, which is good for the economy and job creation. I've often wondered why ammo manufactures don't pour everything they have into defeating the machine gun bans through lawsuits.

Ok you mean machine guns.

Yeah.

Full auto machine guns?

Yeah.

Like the AR-15?

Yeah.

Those are semi-auto.

What?

So what's all this stuff you see on the news then, Newton etc?

Bullshit. A flaming pile of bullshit. Made to look like they are doing something when in actuality they are just misrepresenting the guns to make them seem like more than they are - so it looks like they are doing something.

One thing to note here, a semi automatic is still an “automatic,” which is how the media spins it. They fail to specify whether they mean fully automatic or semi automatic. So there are technically 3 distinctions, semi, full, and both which is presumed to be full. The media isn't lying about that, they're just being intentionally vague to deceive the public.

[ForeverPA]

They have come up with an answer to this semi vs. full auto thing; it doesn't matter. You can fire one round a second with the manual too. I don' think nailing them on the terminology is the way to go. It's like magazines vs. clips. Every time I watched a debate between a pro and an anti, the pro guy said aha, it is not a clip, missing to score on the larger point.

[Pilot321]

They have come up with an answer to this semi vs. full auto thing; it doesn't matter. You can fire one round a second with the manual too.

Yep, that is the new talking point. As people are starting to see through the fully automatic B.S. (lies) that the Dems, and anti legal gun proponents, including Obama are spewing. So, now it is semi-auto and thirty round magazines that are being demonized. These cause "gun violence" all by themselves, not humans, as the gun can play evil mind control tricks or just operate, magically, on their own.