80% Build Parties deemed illegal by the ATF

[Gripsafety]

From what I was told by others, you go to the machine shop, place your lower in a fixture, and press the start button on the machine while a machinist watches and gives instruction. I have no idea if this is really the way it's done.

[sinkrun]

Tons of info on it on You Tube I will be building one as soon as things calm down and the prices settle.

[Gun]

as soon as you do ANY work on an "80%" it is considered a reciever. if more work could have been done then they would sell them that way

That doesn't seem to be the case. Read this;

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_274/2...ping_Now_.html

http://www.americanspiritarms.com/lo...ower-receiver/

The receiver has to have no work done where the FCG is installed.

[dosequis]

So you're saying that the ATF is involving itself into people's right of peaceful assembly? ( please, no puns on Piece-full assembly... )

This is what happens when you give a legislator an inch. There's no way a Federal Government agency should be involved with this. There's no FFL involved, there's no interstate commerce, and there's been no civil rights violation.

Over-riding issue: Who is harmed by building your own rifle?

[USMC3531]

That doesn't seem to be the case. Read this;

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_274/2...ping_Now_.html

http://www.americanspiritarms.com/lo...ower-receiver/

The receiver has to have no work done where the FCG is installed.

the only work those 95% are saving you is the pocket for the rear take down lug, the question was posed if "you could have someone else do most of the work and you just drill the final hole" http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-...-receiver.html

[Gun]

the only work those 95% are saving you is the pocket for the rear take down lug, the question was posed if "you could have someone else do most of the work and you just drill the final hole" http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-...-receiver.html

Your post I quoted had no question included. You made a statement and I responded to that statement.

If you read the AR15.com post, there was a letter from the ATF stating that no machine work can be done in the FCG area of the receiver, for the receiver to be a non-FFL item. Another person can not be paid to do any machining in that area. That person would need a lic. and need to apply a serial # to the receiver.

POSSIBLY, if you went to a buddy's machine shop, with a six pack, and he set the CNC up to do the milling, and you pushed the START button, then there is no intent to manufacturer a firearm for sale after completion, and you are not paying for services. Of course the beer might be consider compensation by the ATF. This last statement is not advice to do what is stated, and not be taken lightly. IANAL.

[USMC3531]

My post was in response to this, "At what point does the 80% lower become finished? Couldn't they work around this by the machinist doing all the work except for one or two spins of the drill press and having the "owner" do those?" And I stand by my statement. With how easy these are to complete there is no reason not to do the work yourself IMHO Buy/borrow/rent a jig and use your buddys drillpress

[Gun]

My post was in response to this, "At what point does the 80% lower become finished? When the receiver has a surface treatment applied, then it will be done! Couldn't they work around this by the machinist doing all the work except for one or two spins of the drill press and having the "owner" do those?" And I stand by my statement. With how easy these are to complete there is no reason not to do the work yourself IMHO Buy/borrow/rent a jig and use your buddys drillpress

You missed the point of my initial post, that's fine.


I added the answer to the first question.

[knight0334]

My post was in response to this, "At what point does the 80% lower become finished? Couldn't they work around this by the machinist doing all the work except for one or two spins of the drill press and having the "owner" do those?" And I stand by my statement. With how easy these are to complete there is no reason not to do the work yourself IMHO Buy/borrow/rent a jig and use your buddys drillpress

The the ATF and the GCA - the point where it crosses over to 81%.

[39flathead]

Okay . . . Do I understand this correctly? The "80% receiver" so-called is an unfinished piece that still requires some machining and holes drilled? Is that it? If so . . . then the 80% is not classified as a firearm requiring an FFL to interstate purchase as would a completed AR lower receiver? Until finished, the 80% receivers in not a firearm?

So . . . my next question is . . . Do these 80% lower receivers have serial numbers on them when received? If not, then upon completion into a firearm, the owner would be required by federal law to apply some type of serial number. I've always been under the strong understanding that to own a modern era firearm without a serial number is a federal crime.

Long ago, while cleaning out the United Shoe Machine Manufacturing Co. (USMMC) factory buildings in Beverly, Massachusetts, we came across a box with four (4) M1 carbine receivers inside. The company had manufactured tooling during WW2 for military sub-contractors. The ones we found were likely test pieces. Those receivers were complete but not serial numbered. Per Fed requirement, Each of the M1 carbine receivers were stamped with an 001, 002, 003 & 004 just to keep things legal.

Anybody know how that serial number situation works with those 80% AR lower receivers?

There are plenty of pre-GCA firearms, mainly .22's out there with no serials. All perfectly legal to own.