Here's a reason to ask to see an LTCF.....

[GunLawyer001]

Got out of jail in February for attacking his ex-wife with a knife (so we know he's prohibited from gun ownership). In April, he has a shotgun, kills his ex in front of the daughter, fires at cops.

Maybe he had the shotgun from before, maybe he bought it at an FFL 20 years ago. But I know this, nobody who follows my advice on selling long guns, sold it to this guy after he got out of jail:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...203684011.html

[crffl]

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Not to the level of that story but there are people still trying, just today from an armslist ad:

Will you sell for cash, FTF ??

If you have a PA driver's license and LTCF I could possible meet you for a FTF, where are you located?

Unfortunately I am not a PA resident, I am a NYer from Buffalo, I have been looking for a Tantal for a while now. Cuomo just made things difficult for me, I understand if you dont want to sell to me, I dont want to make things difficult.

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[dosequis]

I saw that story on the news & the first thing I wondered was: Where did he get the gun -and how long until some talking head says it's an example of why we need a UBC ?

[QuackXP]

Got out of jail in February for attacking his ex-wife with a knife (so we know he's prohibited from gun ownership). In April, he has a shotgun, kills his ex in front of the daughter, fires at cops.

Maybe he had the shotgun from before, maybe he bought it at an FFL 20 years ago. But I know this, nobody who follows my advice on selling long guns, sold it to this guy after he got out of jail:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...203684011.html

And the LTCF is just a piece of plastic that states on the day of issue that this person was not prohibited. It does not magically update itself if the licence was revoked. Maybe he "lost" it before he attacked his wife and "found" it when he got out of jail.

I did not want UBC any more than anyone else. But personally unless someone is a trusted family member or friend they are going through an FFL for any firearm.

[GunLawyer001]

And the LTCF is just a piece of plastic that states on the day of issue that this person was not prohibited. It does not majically update itself if the licence was revoked. Maybe he "lost" it before he attacked his wife and "found" it when he got out of jail.

I did not want UBC any more than anyone else. But personally unless someone is a trusted family member or friend they are going through an FFL for any firearm.

You raise good points. But life is relative; a current background check is most likely to weed out the angry ex-husband looking for payback, but an apparently current LTCF is sure better than just asking the guy to sign a slip of paper saying he's not prohibited. Or not asking anything, because the law doesn't actually require you to investigate or care. We have options, legal options and moral options. If I'd sold that 12 gauge to the raging sociopathic ex, I'd feel pretty damn bad reading about what he did with it.

[PaGunner]

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Not to the level of that story but there are people still trying, just today from an armslist ad:

'Unfortunately I am not a PA resident, I am a NYer from Buffalo, I have been looking for a Tantal for a while now. Cuomo just made things difficult for me, I understand if you dont want to sell to me, I dont want to make things difficult.'

.

Obviously this is illegal and I am not suggesting you do this but tell me you didn't at least give it some thought because it would be the ultimate "up yours" to Cuomo.

[QuackXP]

You raise good points. But life is relative; a current background check is most likely to weed out the angry ex-husband looking for payback, but an apparently current LTCF is sure better than just asking the guy to sign a slip of paper saying he's not prohibited. Or not asking anything, because the law doesn't actually require you to investigate or care. We have options, legal options and moral options. If I'd sold that 12 gauge to the raging sociopathic ex, I'd feel pretty damn bad reading about what he did with it.

I agree that a LTCF is better than nothing. At least you know at some point this person was not prohibited.

[Himni]

You raise good points. But life is relative; a current background check is most likely to weed out the angry ex-husband looking for payback, but an apparently current LTCF is sure better than just asking the guy to sign a slip of paper saying he's not prohibited. Or not asking anything, because the law doesn't actually require you to investigate or care. We have options, legal options and moral options. If I'd sold that 12 gauge to the raging sociopathic ex, I'd feel pretty damn bad reading about what he did with it.

This guy was obviously very mentally disturbed so regardless of whether he had a firearm of any kind he was going to kill his ex-wife with anything he could use as a weapon. I am not saying you shouldn't ask to see someone's LTCF before selling them a long gun just that it wouldn't have stopped this man from murdering his ex-wife if he hadn't some how gotten the shotgun.

[Qtrborecrazy]

Beckel on Orielly last night argued the same point, all the guns in massacres were bought legally. He failed to mention how many straw purchases ended in arrests and convictions. O'Rielly just wants flat out registration. Need to sell something go to your local dealer and have him buy or sell on consignment. Thats what I did with some of my stuff. I might have taken a lose but my stuff went to legal gun owners. Whats a life worth to you?

[chrissmith1]

The problem with stories like this is a simple question:

Does selling a firearm to a prohibited person mean they're going to use it?

If a guy has a LTCF, that just means that at the time it was issued, he was a good guy. It doesn't mean he's a good guy now. Every single violent offender, ever, didn't start out as one. There was a moment in time where they could have passed the very same background checks suggested today by the people who want to restrict ownership to the elite. Not doing anything wrong YET doesn't make them good people, it just means they haven't had the opportunity or motivation to be evil, yet.

The other side of that coin is the broad range of what makes a person prohibited. A guy busted for possession 20 years ago can't buy a rifle. Does that 1/8th of weed make him more likely than James Holmes to shoot up a crowd?