LTCF woes Montgomrey County

[paul641]

My wife and I just moved to Franconia Township Montgomrey county after living in Bucks since we were married in 1973. I have maintained my LTCF for 39 years in Bucks county,Hilltown Twsp. Before we moved I contacted the Bucks county sheriffs office and asked if I needed to do anything special in regards to my LTCF.I was informed that I should send Bucks a letter to notify them of my new address and when my LTCF came due again (4 years) that I should reapply through Montgomrey county as the LTCF is STATE license anyway.I went online and looked up the Montgomrey county Sherrifs website and took away information that I needed to inform my township (Franconia) that I now reside therein and having a LTCF that they needed to be notified.I went to the Franconia PD and was informed that I would have to go through a background check provided by them and refile for a new LTCf through Montgomrey county if I passed the background check and pay again for a new LTCF. It seems strange to me that one county can quote State Stature one way and a neighboring county can choose another path requiring me to reapply and pay again.The wife and I wanted to move into an over 55 development and start enjoying our golden years but so far our decission to change counties of residence has been to say the least ,,,,,,,questionable.

[fortysix]

I went online and looked up the Montgomrey county Sherrifs website and took away information that I needed to inform my township (Franconia) that I now reside therein and having a LTCF that they needed to be notified.

Do you know where on the website this information is listed?

Far as I know, your LTCF expires on the date listed on the card, unless revoked. I was not aware of a county-specific obligation to inform your local PD when you move. You DO have to have a change of address, however.

[brianinpa]

My wife and I just moved to Franconia Township Montgomrey county after living in Bucks since we were married in 1973. ...The wife and I wanted to move into an over 55 development and start enjoying our golden years but so far our decission to change counties of residence has been to say the least ,,,,,,,questionable.

Welcome to the Commonwealth of Montgomrey County where requirements EXCEED the state requirements.

[twency]

My wife and I just moved to Franconia Township Montgomrey county after living in Bucks since we were married in 1973. I have maintained my LTCF for 39 years in Bucks county,Hilltown Twsp. Before we moved I contacted the Bucks county sheriffs office and asked if I needed to do anything special in regards to my LTCF.I was informed that I should send Bucks a letter to notify them of my new address and when my LTCF came due again (4 years) that I should reapply through Montgomrey county as the LTCF is STATE license anyway.I went online and looked up the Montgomrey county Sherrifs website and took away information that I needed to inform my township (Franconia) that I now reside therein and having a LTCF that they needed to be notified.I went to the Franconia PD and was informed that I would have to go through a background check provided by them and refile for a new LTCf through Montgomrey county if I passed the background check and pay again for a new LTCF. It seems strange to me that one county can quote State Stature one way and a neighboring county can choose another path requiring me to reapply and pay again.The wife and I wanted to move into an over 55 development and start enjoying our golden years but so far our decission to change counties of residence has been to say the least ,,,,,,,questionable.

Your license is good for its original term unless sooner revoked for good cause. Moving to another county is not good cause to revoke.

When renewal time rolls around you'll have to decide how willing or not you are to pay the MontCo sheriff's little game, but until your current license expires you should be good to go.

[Remington788]

Once upon a time, the Sheriff required an applicant to present a signed police check form. If an applicant did not obtain the form, the Sheriff would not accept the application. If you had the form, then the Sheriff would run PICS, take your photo and $20 and issue the LTCF on the spot.

The Sheriff justified the form by saying that it was part of the investigation. The Sheriff wants to know of you have had run-ins with the local police that have not made into the official records.

A few townships in the county have decided to take advantage of the requirement by charging their residents to fill out the form. I find this reprehensible.

Some people had a real problem with this card (it sounds like you do, even though you don't live here and don't know what goes on here). They began to give the newly elected Sheriff holy hell over this age old practice (at least one of these persons is a member here). The new Sheriff agreed that an applicant should not be required to do the legwork for the Sheriff's investigation. So, a resident may apply for their LTCF without the police check form. The Sheriff's office will just contact your local PD themselves. Since they have no control over how long it will take to get the information back from the PD, it could take up to 45 days.

The Sheriff recognized that some people did not mind stopping at their local PD and getting the form signed. A resident of Montco has the option of obtaining the police check form signed, bring it in and to your PICS run, photo taken, pay $20 and walk out with LTCF in hand.

[GunLawyer001]

Your LTCF is a state license, issued through your local sheriff (or the Philly PD).

There is NO requirement to notify your new town or county that you've moved under their thumb. None at all. It serves no purpose.

You aren't even legally required to tell the old sheriff that you've moved away, but it's a good idea to send him a letter anyway. If by mistake or intentionally anyone asks the issuing sheriff to revoke your LTCF, he'll send a certified letter to your last address, and that's enough, you're revoked, even if you never get the letter. Meaning that you'll THINK you have a valid license, but in fact it's a felony for you to carry concealed or in a vehicle. That's a ticking time bomb.

So send a certified letter to the old sheriff, make a note on your calendar of when your license is set to expire.

[paul641]

After reading the Montgomrey County Sherriffs web page again I will state what I take from the wording. Any expired license more than sixty days old or a renewal issued from another county shall be considered a new application and require a background check,,,,,

[iamtommyboy]

First let me say, here we go again!

Second, I was looking for other county sheriff sites to see if others required a renewal from another county to apply as a new applicant. Doesn't seem too difficult a thing to me (same process and cost really.) I figure, maybe the county thinks there is a possibility that you moved because of some legal troubles (it has been done before) so they want to make sure that they check things out rather than just issuing. If they issued it and then you went on a shooting spree with your "legally carried handgun", they would get blamed.

I came across the Monroe County Sheriff's site. Here is a list of their requirements for an LTCF:

Paperwork Necessary for Concealed Weapons Permit
Download complete Instruction Sheet. Be sure to read the ENTIRE Instruction Sheet, front and back, PRIOR to completing the application. The application MUST have both sides printed on one sheet of paper.
Pennsylvania Driver's License or Pennsylvania Non-Driver Photo Identification Card
Photocopy of Local 1% Earned Income Tax or other tax paper if retired/disabled (Please refer to full instruction sheet for information)
2 References (Must be Monroe County Residents - Please refer to full instruction sheet for reference requirements)
If disabled - Written documentation from your doctor or social security explaining the nature of your disability.
Copy of your DD-214 if you were in the military.
Non U.S. Citizens need to provide the Immigration Identification Number. Please bring to the office as it must be photocopied for your file.
Your photograph will be taken at the time of application.

Uh oh, it looks like Montco isn't the only Nazis in the state after all. I wasn't required to show my DD214, tax bills or disabled veteran information to get my permit. What if you don't have a tax bill because you have just moved and they haven't been issued yet? It could be months before you can get your LTCF. And how dare they require veterans to provide proof of service?

BTW, this is dripping with sarcasm, but the point is, each county does do certain things differently. Montco is not the only one who has a requirement that is different. Bringing in your DD214 is part of the Sheriff's investigation that you are doing for him. He wants to see your discharge type. Why should you have to do that for him? I don't see anyone crying about this in the Monroe County forum.

Paul641, this response isn't geared specifically at your or your post...but toward the slew of folks who post complaining about the requirement of having a local PD check. Just in researching your issue, I came across another county who has different requirements than the rest of the state.

[fortysix]

This again illustrates how PA did this wrong. If the *law* and *procedure* varies from county to county, then it isn't really a Uniform Firearms Act, is it? The sheriff should do nothing other than what is stated in the Act, that is, to run the PICS check and put the application into a filing cabinet, and then print a permit. It shouldn't be a mystery how will this county or that county do it, how much will it cost, who do I have to beg, how long will it take. A UFA is just that, UNIVERSAL. Every county that has anything different than what the UFA says is doing it wrong and doing it illegally, and if anyone claims that it IS legal, then the UFA is wrong.

I'll reiterate my constant objection to providing employers' name and address and telephone number as well as the names of two persons that I can recite who own and operate telephones. Neither piece of data is relevant, since it's self-supplied (what else would my friends say other than that I'm a kewl dude?). The privacy portion of the UFA clearly states that the *references* and the *employer* cannot be contacted, so there is no way that they can prove you have provided true information or not, and they cannot use that information in any way other than possibly building a database of your friends and associates. We are protected by the Constitution which enumerates our right to assemble and to associate with anyone we like, without any penalty or prejudice. If I write on my application that one of my references is Randy Weaver, or Tim McVeigh, how do you think my LTCF will turn out? What if I write Micheal E. Mouse? Or Seymour Butts? The sheriff has no legal right or authority to check on these references, at least not in any way that could possibly disseminate any data on the form, including that the applicant has applied for the permit to begin with.

Anyway, best of luck, and welcome to Montgomery County. It's a nice place, at least some of it.

[soberbyker]

First let me say, here we go again!

Second, I was looking for other county sheriff sites to see if others required a renewal from another county to apply as a new applicant. Doesn't seem too difficult a thing to me (same process and cost really.) I figure, maybe the county thinks there is a possibility that you moved because of some legal troubles (it has been done before) so they want to make sure that they check things out rather than just issuing. If they issued it and then you went on a shooting spree with your "legally carried handgun", they would get blamed.

I came across the Monroe County Sheriff's site. Here is a list of their requirements for an LTCF:

Paperwork Necessary for Concealed Weapons Permit
Download complete Instruction Sheet. Be sure to read the ENTIRE Instruction Sheet, front and back, PRIOR to completing the application. The application MUST have both sides printed on one sheet of paper.
Pennsylvania Driver's License or Pennsylvania Non-Driver Photo Identification Card
Photocopy of Local 1% Earned Income Tax or other tax paper if retired/disabled (Please refer to full instruction sheet for information)
2 References (Must be Monroe County Residents - Please refer to full instruction sheet for reference requirements)
If disabled - Written documentation from your doctor or social security explaining the nature of your disability.
Copy of your DD-214 if you were in the military.
Non U.S. Citizens need to provide the Immigration Identification Number. Please bring to the office as it must be photocopied for your file.
Your photograph will be taken at the time of application.

Uh oh, it looks like Montco isn't the only Nazis in the state after all. I wasn't required to show my DD214, tax bills or disabled veteran information to get my permit. What if you don't have a tax bill because you have just moved and they haven't been issued yet? It could be months before you can get your LTCF. And how dare they require veterans to provide proof of service?

BTW, this is dripping with sarcasm, but the point is, each county does do certain things differently. Montco is not the only one who has a requirement that is different. Bringing in your DD214 is part of the Sheriff's investigation that you are doing for him. He wants to see your discharge type. Why should you have to do that for him? I don't see anyone crying about this in the Monroe County forum.

Paul641, this response isn't geared specifically at your or your post...but toward the slew of folks who post complaining about the requirement of having a local PD check. Just in researching your issue, I came across another county who has different requirements than the rest of the state.

In DELCO my wife had lost her purse, LTCF inside, only had it for a year, they made her go through the process of replacing it like it was a new application as if she never had one before.