PEOPLE DEMADING LONG ARMS TRANSFED AT A FFL

[elray]

first,its not required by law.its protected under the 1968 GCA.
this is the "gunshow loophole" you hear about all the time now.
they want to stop us from freely selling our guns to another person.

second,it feeds right into the demand for expanded background checks by zero and crew.

third,its truly not my concern what you do with a firearm once I sell it to you.
you produdce a pa dl. you show me your carry permit. you tell me your not prohibited from owing said longarm. we do a bill of sale. that's enough for me,and is more than whats required.

lets say I sell you a: knife,car,chainsaw,rope,tools and so on.how is it my concern if you: get drunk,kill someone with said car,or stab you friend with the knife,tool,or chainsaw? better yet,am I in the wrong if you hang yourself with a rope I sold you? no im not.
we are all adults,and assume risks when we buy anything that can cause bodily harm. im a free man,and if I sell you my shotgun,in my honest opinion,you have the right to do whatever you wish with it.i may not like what you did with it,but you are a free man,and you make your own choices.

when I worked in the gun business,a co worker was upset that we sold a gun to someone who killed himself with it. how is that the merchants fault?
it not. no one can possibly know someones state of mind,period.

they will,if we keep it up,require that ftf ammo sales be recored at a ffl.


enough of this already. its not required by law....keep feeding into it,and it will be....freedoms,once lost,rarely return.

[QuackXP]

first,its not required by law.its protected under the 1968 GCA.
this is the "gunshow loophole" you hear about all the time now.
they want to stop us from freely selling our guns to another person.

second,it feeds right into the demand for expanded background checks by zero and crew.

third,its truly not my concern what you do with a firearm once I sell it to you.
you produdce a pa dl. you show me your carry permit. you tell me your not prohibited from owing said longarm. we do a bill of sale. that's enough for me,and is more than whats required.

lets say I sell you a: knife,car,chainsaw,rope,tools and so on.how is it my concern if you: get drunk,kill someone with said car,or stab you friend with the knife,tool,or chainsaw? better yet,am I in the wrong if you hang yourself with a rope I sold you? no im not.
we are all adults,and assume risks when we buy anything that can cause bodily harm. im a free man,and if I sell you my shotgun,in my honest opinion,you have the right to do whatever you wish with it.i may not like what you did with it,but you are a free man,and you make your own choices.

when I worked in the gun business,a co worker was upset that we sold a gun to someone who killed himself with it. how is that the merchants fault?
it not. no one can possibly know someones state of mind,period.

they will,if we keep it up,require that ftf ammo sales be recored at a ffl.


enough of this already. its not required by law....keep feeding into it,and it will be....freedoms,once lost,rarely return.

If you don't like the sellers policy don't buy that firearm.

[elray]

If you don't like the sellers policy don't buy that firearm.

right,you missed the point.

[FNG19]

first,its not required by law.

The problem with this is that "No one says I can't/have-to do it!" has become the reason for so many laws on the books. There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone voluntarily asking for some assurance that Joe Generic Buyer not a psychopath trolling the secondary market because they can't buy directly. The seller/transferor risks jail time for an illegal transfer if he sells/transfers to someone who was prohibited.

Are you seriously going to suggest that someone who doesn't want to risk going to jail on the basis of someone else's lie not take advantage of a simple "trust but verify" method if it's available? Note above that I said voluntary. That's the key.

[elray]

when I live in florida,no ffl was required for a longarm,or a handgun for a ftf private sale.
never had any doubt that I was always within the law.

if,and if I feel the need to use an ffl to make sure the person is on the up and up with me(for a longarm sale) I will not even bother with that person.

we are feeding right into expanded back ground checks.
"gunshow loophole" the antis talk about is your right to sell a privately owned longarm to another non prohibited person,ftf within the borders of your state.

[FNG19]

if,and if I feel the need to use an ffl to make sure the person is on the up and up with me(for a longarm sale) I will not even bother with that person.

And that's your right -- just as it's my right to ask you to prove in the generally accepted way that you're not a prohibited person. If I make that a condition of sale and you choose not to do it, no problem. I won't bother with you.

Put the tin foil away. You're not taking an intellectually honest position, though I don't doubt your sincerity/concern about this issue. There's a huge difference between voluntary participation and compulsory compliance. I think most people here would agree that compulsory compliance is bad. I see no problem with a voluntary check system if the participants in the transaction agree to it. Hell, if there was a way to do it without an FFL getting involved, even better.

[QuackXP]

right,you missed the point.

I do get it, but...

I think we are better off getting the current laws changed and removing the "sales database" and not allowing something similar on a federal level.

Personally on a long arm that has a paper trail to me, I want as much of a paper trail away from me. It sucks the way the system works now, but I prefer to mitigate the amount of risk I expose myself to.

[elray]

And that's your right -- just as it's my right to ask you to prove in the generally accepted way that you're not a prohibited person. If I make that a condition of sale and you choose not to do it, no problem. I won't bother with you.

Put the tin foil away. You're not taking an intellectually honest position, though I don't doubt your sincerity/concern about this issue. There's a huge difference between voluntary participation and compulsory compliance. I think most people here would agree that compulsory compliance is bad. I see no problem with a voluntary check system if the participants in the transaction agree to it. Hell, if there was a way to do it without an FFL getting involved, even better.

nice insults. I am taking an intellectually honest position. maybe you should lobby to change the law to require all longarms to go thru an ffl. would that make you feel better?
if you read my original post,you would see that I said:you produdce a pa dl. you show me your carry permit. you tell me your not prohibited from owing said longarm. we do a bill of sale. that's enough for me,and is more than whats required. maybe you are asleep,and don't see whats comming down the pike at us.thats also your right. gun owners can be and are their own worst enemy.

[elray]

I do get it, but...

I think we are better off getting the current laws changed and removing the "sales database" and not allowing something similar on a federal level.

Personally on a long arm that has a paper trail to me, I want as much of a paper trail away from me. It sucks the way the system works now, but I prefer to mitigate the amount of risk I expose myself to.

and that's your right to avail yourself to the services of an ffl.
they have no problem taking the cash.

[elray]

The problem with this is that "No one says I can't/have-to do it!" has become the reason for so many laws on the books. There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone voluntarily asking for some assurance that Joe Generic Buyer not a psychopath trolling the secondary market because they can't buy directly. The seller/transferor risks jail time for an illegal transfer if he sells/transfers to someone who was prohibited.

Are you seriously going to suggest that someone who doesn't want to risk going to jail on the basis of someone else's lie not take advantage of a simple "trust but verify" method if it's available? Note above that I said voluntary. That's the key.

also,please cite the case(s) were a person has done time for this.