Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

[billamj]

The fact that nobody actually associated with FCO ever said anything other than money was involved in their policy in regards to non-brass ammo would pretty much discredit your theory that you pulled out from *somewhere*.

Also, keep in mind that personal attacks do little to advance the discussion. Get whoever helps you log on to explain the big words.

So now people who own private businesses have to explain their business decisions to you? ROFLMAO..... Thank you ever so much for proving how ignorant people can be. Good-bye troll!

[Emptymag]

The fact that nobody actually associated with FCO ever said anything other than money was involved in their policy in regards to non-brass ammo would pretty much discredit your theory that you pulled out from *somewhere*.

Also, keep in mind that personal attacks do little to advance the discussion. Get whoever helps you log on to explain the big words.

TAC,
I'm not seeing the personal attacks here...
I DO see you calling people names when they don't stand behind your version/feeling of how things should be.

Not the best way to introduce yourself to the members, but hey, that's your call.

I think you've made it perfectly clear how you feel about this range.
Is there anything constructive you'd like to add to the forum? We're all ears.

~EM

[TAC]

So now people who own private businesses have to explain their business decisions to you?

No. however, they did mention profit, and did not mention anything else. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that profit, and not some sooper-sekrit hidden motive, is in fact, the motive.

ROFLMAO..... Thank you ever so much for proving how ignorant people can be. Good-bye troll!

I proved nothing. You did so voluntarily.

[TAC]

TAC,
I'm not seeing the personal attacks here...

A phrase such as 'pull your head out' implies that I have my head IN somewhere or something. If you don't count that as offensive, well...pull your head out.

I DO see you calling people names when they don't stand behind your version/feeling of how things should be.

Nonsense, of course. I do correct people who misunderstand or attempt to assign motives to me that are not contained in what I have written, and tend to do so in like manner.

Not the best way to introduce yourself to the members, but hey, that's your call.

I didn't choose this thread as an introduction. It chose me. I found your website, and this thread, while searching the 'net for alternative shooting ranges.

I think you've made it perfectly clear how you feel about this range.
Is there anything constructive you'd like to add to the forum? We're all ears.

~EM

At the moment, I very much prefer to read and learn. I will have contributions as the situation merits, and you may or may not find them constructive.

As for this thread, I find billamj's contributions to be less than constructive, and will continue to answer him in the same manner in which he posts.

[XD45]

TAC you need to get over yourself it seems, you seem to have to walk on water mentality and in the firearm world NOONE walks on water. You need to follow rules like everyone else.

A business is there to make money, and them picking up brass actually in some way or another lowers your shooting costs i'm sure(well did i'm assuming your not welcome there anymore). Either way they could kick you out for not liking the brand of firearm you brought, you need to listen to them as its their house.

Also if theres anyway you could quit making PAFOA look bad, that'd be great!

[Emptymag]

TAC,

Please take a deep breath and come back in 24 hours.
As firearm owners, we need to work together... not fight with each other.




Folks, not every discussion is a friendly one, but we would all do well to be a little nicer to each other.

[PA Rifleman]

During a purchase there, one sales man asked the other if I passed the background check or not. The one helping me shouted back something to the effect of, "Yeah, he's just got some minor traffic stuff."

Just so everyone knows, PICS does not give out any personal information at all. It's a bad joke we're trying to stop.

John:

May I make a suggestion? Print this post out, and take it to your store owner with a policy suggestion: the next employee that makes false vilifying remarks about customer integrity (even minor traffic infractions) gets fired on the spot, and in front of the customer.

If the store owner has any questions or doubts what can happen on the losing side of a slander lawsuit, have them contact an attorney. While many of us PAFOA posters are aware that PICS doesn't reveal minor details like this, we can't assume everyone in the store within an earshot of this exchange is similarly versed.

As a business owner, I would consider this activity a direct threat to my enterprise and treat it as such.

While slander used as sophomoric humor will annoy some customers, there are persons who would be negatively impacted by remarks like this, true or otherwise. Some occupations require driving, and many employers have very strict driving policies that are controlled by insurance companies. In many instances they include motor vehicle incidents off the clock and while using personal vehicles. Should a false claim like this example cause a tangible loss (like job demotion or loss), French Creek, et al could be exposed to legal liability. And then there's the publicity that would be generated. As a business owner, I would consider this activity a direct threat to my enterprise and treat it as such.

It also reflects poorly on the store, as it indicates disrespect by the staff towards customer. It's also entirely preventable.

[jon'76]

So I don't really care much, but I think the error was on both sides.

Obviously, TAC was unaware of the rules and if it's true that they are not listed in the rule book they should be so that potential customers know this. Basically he went to the range to shoot and then someone came over and ruined his trip due to an unlisted rule. So he feels slighted and decides to complain about it.

Now the RO was obviously just doing his job and TAC should NOT have gotten loud or obnoxious with the manager at all. TAC was in violation of the rules and it appears that he did comply and then asked for a refund since apparently he prefers the steel and aluminum cased ammo. If he only used 1 part of a 5 part gift certificate he should have been given a refund for 4/5 and told to have a nice day.


In the end it's no ones fault, just a bad experience. IMO no one is at fault and this really shouldn't reflect on anyone badly. If someone ended my range trip short due to an unlisted rule and then refused a partial (4/5) refund I would be angry as well. if that accomodation (the refund) was not met I would have complained to the owner. The manager and RO are also innocent as they were just doing their job. It's the ROs job to make sure the ranges rules are followed and the managers job to try to dissuade a refund and make the customer happy.

The solution is to list the brass only rule clearly in the list of range rules, and for EVERYONE to have a bit more patience and understanding.

[MartinBrody]

PA Rifleman said...

May I make a suggestion? Print this post out, and take it to your store owner with a policy suggestion: the next employee that makes false vilifying remarks about customer integrity (even minor traffic infractions) gets fired on the spot, and in front of the customer.

FWIW I bought a rifle there recently and someone made the same corny joke, I thought it was extremely obvious that it was made in jest, it was literally said with a wink and a laugh making it clear it was not true. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to be offended by it.

I like FCO a lot, my only complaint would be that it gets busy on the weekends. The same could be said for Targetmaster and probably any other indoor range that is open to the public in this region.

[PisnNapalm]

When that "corny joke" was made about my purchase, I was still very new to firearms. It was my second purchase.

It made me feel awkward, uncomfortable.... or.... what's the word I'm looking for... ahhh yes... EMBARRASSED. I didn't take it as a joke. I was there for the serious business of purchasing a firearm. Even though I know I have absolutely nothing to worry about as far as a background check goes, it still made me a bit tense.

What if there's a mistake? What if I made a goof on my forms? What if's....

The only things I have had are minor traffic violations. So it seemed very possible to me that the guy behind the counter was being told my background info and not just a "Passed or Denied" from the guy on the other end of the phone.

Like I said before... I'll window shop, but I doubt I'll purchase another firearm there.

EDIT:: Yup... I think I'd rather drive further or pay a bit more money somewhere else than buy there again.