Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

[TAC]

TAC
I stand by what I posted previously.

You come on here and attack our department manager by calling him an "idiot". I don't assume but judging by your remark about our manager, I can imagine how you reacted when the RO told you about not being allowed to use steel cased ammo on the range.

Perhaps you think he was wise in escalating a minor issue over $45.00.

And no need to assume anything. When told by your RO to stop shooting, unload, sweep up, and dump steel in the garbage, I did those very things. When I exited the range, I asked about your written range rules. When your RO became mesmerized while searching for the absent words 'steel' and 'aluminum', I requested to speak with a manager. I didn't get loud or angry untill said manager refused my refund.

I don't see that it's any of your concern about what we do with our range brass that's left behind.

So you admit profit is the only motive behind the ammo restriction. No surprise there.

Unless I'm mistaken about the Federal PD ammo you're talking about, it's nickle plated brass. No problem using it on the range.

JB

In my book, nickle ain't brass. But no matter. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself an A for effort.

[jtkratzer]

I'm not taking sides in this, I have no dog in this fight, but it's his business and if he doesn't want you shooting anything other than brass in their range, then you either obied by it or don't shoot there. Whether it's in the rules or not, it's his property and place of business and has the right to refuse a particular type of ammunition regardless of whether you think it's reasonable or not. He does not have to justify to you why he restricts ammo or what he does with the brass dumped into the containers. If there was a rule that required you to leave your brass there, I wouldn't shoot there. There is a range about an equal drive to the west of me requiring you to buy their ammo to shoot on their range. I don't go there because I don't like their prices or the restrictions.

A local private club does not allow anything to be used in their indoor range but lead round nose. Is that healthy and safe? Probably less safe than jacketed ammunition, but I'm not making a huge fuss about it...I simply chose not to join that club.

As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed, you got your refund, the rules have been clearly explained.

If it's not clearly written in the rules that are required to be read by everyone on their first visit, it should be. If it's not anywhere that's clearly visible until after you've paid for range time, it should be unless a refund on the $12/hour is going to be promptly handed back to the customer.

On that note, can we let this go and everyone get over it?

[TAC]

Try reading for comprehension. No one is contesting JBs right to set the rules as he sees fit. My only issue is the way I was treated, and their attempt to avoid a refund.

Perhaps it is time for JB to have a discussion with his staff, where he might point out that, while the customer is not always right, he is always the customer. And while a satisfied customer may tell his friends, a dissatisfied customer will damn sure tell everyone he can.

[Seneca Arms Co. Inc.]

So you admit profit is the only motive behind the ammo restriction. No surprise there.
.

Why is this such an important point to continue making? Of course the motive is profit why else would they be in business. The range is part of their product mix and it needs to be profitable or it needs to be closed. I think most shooters are glad to have an indoor range in that area. No one is forcing you to go back.

John
Seneca Arms Co.

[Slim Pickens]

Try reading for comprehension. No one is contesting JBs right to set the rules as he sees fit. My only issue is the way I was treated, and their attempt to avoid a refund.

Perhaps it is time for JB to have a discussion with his staff, where he might point out that, while the customer is not always right, he is always the customer. And while a satisfied customer may tell his friends, a dissatisfied customer will damn sure tell everyone he can.

FWIW, I've been to the the range at FCO many times and there is definitely a clearly posted sign saying no steel cased ammo. It's a moot point though, because as everyone has pointed out- it's their range. Who cares if the only reason is "profit?" I don't understand what the big deal is.

John B has never shown himself to be anything other than a gentleman in my dealings with him- he sold me my first shotgun, he helped me get a membership to New Holland RPC, he was extremely helpful in assisting me to select the AR setup I wanted, and on February 16, 2008, the very day in question, he sold me my XD9 Subcompact.

His word is good enough for me.

Slim

[TAC]

Why is this such an important point to continue making? Of course the motive is profit why else would they be in business. The range is part of their product mix and it needs to be profitable or it needs to be closed. I think most shooters are glad to have an indoor range in that area. No one is forcing you to go back.

John
Seneca Arms Co.

Ahh. It's an admission they are reluctant to make, and a stick to poke them with. Where is the equal prohibition against collecting your brass and taking it with you? Seems to me they're missing the boat on that one. JB should thank me.

I don't mind that they make a profit. What I mind is being treated like a criminal for unknowingly stepping on their hidden income in such a small fashion.

[billamj]

Ahh. It's an admission they are reluctant to make, and a stick to poke them with. Where is the equal prohibition against collecting your brass and taking it with you? Seems to me they're missing the boat on that one. JB should thank me.

I don't mind that they make a profit. What I mind is being treated like a criminal for unknowingly stepping on their hidden income in such a small fashion.

An admission they are reluctant to make? They're a freaking business, and they are in business to make money, also known as profit. There is no logic in your argument. Why would there be a prohibition against collecting your brass and taking it with you? You bought it, if you decide to let them have it that is your option, if you want to take it with you, again it is your option. I think that you need to realize that business is business and deal with it.

[TAC]

An admission they are reluctant to make? They're a freaking business, and they are in business to make money, also known as profit.

Thank you Capt. Obvious.

There is no logic in your argument.

At least none that you were able to grasp.

Why would there be a prohibition against collecting your brass and taking it with you? You bought it, if you decide to let them have it that is your option, if you want to take it with you, again it is your option.

Because the outcome is equal. If I use steel-cased ammo, they do not profit by collecting it. If I use brass, but collect it and take it with me, again they do not profit by collecting it.

What makes brass profit germane to the issue is that it explains why FCO's staff reacted as though I stole their lunch money.

I think that you need to realize that business is business and deal with it.

And I think you've posted without reading (or understanding) what I wrote. Had you made it to the second paragraph, you would have seen that I do not object to FCO making a profit.

[billamj]

What makes brass profit germane to the issue is that it explains why FCO's staff reacted as though I stole their lunch money.

Here is one for you, how about the concept that if a piece of brass gets into the machinery it will do little to no damage, not so with steel since it is harder than the gears within the equipment. Of course someone as brilliant as yourself wouldn't take that into consideration since you know exactly where each spent casing will be going well before you pull the trigger. You need to pull your head out and realize that since it is private property they have the right to do business as they see fit. If you don't like it go elsewhere.

[TAC]

Here is one for you, how about the concept that if a piece of brass gets into the machinery it will do little to no damage, not so with steel since it is harder than the gears within the equipment. Of course someone as brilliant as yourself wouldn't take that into consideration since you know exactly where each spent casing will be going well before you pull the trigger. You need to pull your head out and realize that since it is private property they have the right to do business as they see fit. If you don't like it go elsewhere.

The fact that nobody actually associated with FCO ever said anything other than money was involved in their policy in regards to non-brass ammo would pretty much discredit your theory that you pulled out from *somewhere*.

Also, keep in mind that personal attacks do little to advance the discussion. Get whoever helps you log on to explain the big words.