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February 18th, 2008, 10:14 AM #21
Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
Why hello there old thread. For what it's worth, I had a less than pleasant experience at French Creek
2/16/2008, The range master tells me that I can't use anything other than brass ammo at their indoor range. Today was only about the 11tyth time I've shot there with Wolf or Blazer ammo, and never a word before. Whatever. That ain't the problem.
I asked the RM if said rule against steel-cased ammo was in the written range rules...a copy of which they make you read and sign before they let you in the first time. He says it's in there and proceeds to read the rules. Then he reads 'em again. Out loud. After which I say, "Fascinating, I'm sure...but I didn't hear the word 'steel' anywhere in there." Whatever. This still ain't the problem.
I asked to talk to someone in management, and go through the same procedure with him...at which point I get to the issue. To wit: Had the 'no steel or aluminum cases' rule been in print, then the fault would clearly be mine. As it was not in writing, I had solid ground for the following conversation.
Paraphrase of what I told the manager:
Had I known about said rule, I wouldn't have purchased 1000 rounds of steel-cased ammo. Since they chose to enforce this unwritten rule, I now have to find someplace else to shoot. That being the case, I can't use the gift certificate for range time that my dear wife gave me for Christmas, and I'd like a refund. Manager says no, because I used one of the free visits. And that's the problem. The idiot made me get loud and obnoxious in front of all his other customers over 45 lousy dollars.
And the kicker? It would appear that the only reason for their brass-only rule is that they recover and recycle the brass for fun and big profit.
Another kicker: They sell non-brass ammo. Yeesh.
I got my money, but they'll never see another cent of mine.Last edited by TAC; February 18th, 2008 at 10:16 AM.
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February 18th, 2008, 10:34 AM #22
Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
I doubt I'll purchase another firearm there again.
During a purchase there, one sales man asked the other if I passed the background check or not. The one helping me shouted back something to the effect of, "Yeah, he's just got some minor traffic stuff." Ummm... Pardon me but that's my personal information you're shouting across to the other end of the counter.
I window shop there but, I'll probably purchase my next gun elsewhere.Μολὼν λάβε
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February 18th, 2008, 11:21 AM #23
Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
I rarely shoot there anymore.. WAY overpriced ammo and they won't let you "draw" your pistol or really do any drills for that matter. I go to target master now. It's just a 'tiny' bit better, but they have problems too...
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February 18th, 2008, 01:18 PM #24
Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
If you don't mind driving for an hour or so to the west, there are a number of private ranges at reasonable prices (read that $10 or so per year instead of the $300 or so per year private ranges here charge), and some quite nice ones. I'm "not allowed" to shop at FCO since the guys at the gun counter torqued my wife, on two separate occasions, when she tried to buy herself a gun.
"Never give up, never surrender!" Commander Peter Quincy Taggart
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February 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM #25Grand Member
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Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
I've never had a problem shooting there. The policy about showing your weapon as clear is silly for those who carry, but it's the rule, you show your gun is clear, go back to your lane, load up, holster, and walk out. No big deal.
Never had an issue with anything other than brass either. I've seen quite a bit of aluminum cases on the floor.
About their brass, they don't do anything with it. I was told a guy comes to pick it up and deal with it for them so they don't have to sort it or anything. I don't know if the guy sells it or scraps it, but either way...
Again, I've never had a problem at their range, not with the staff, not with the rules, not with anyone else. I don't plan on shooting there any more as I'm joining a club that's closer with 24/7 indoor access, but that's the only reason.
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February 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM #26
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February 18th, 2008, 04:27 PM #27Member
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February 18th, 2008, 08:14 PM #28Active Member
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Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
Let's get some things straight here:
You've been on the range before.
There is a sign on the door going into the range that tells you steel cased ammo is prohibited. It's been there for awhile now but you choose to ignore it.
The RO on duty that day has seen you there before and has told you about the steel case ammo restriction in the past.
No one made you get loud and obnoxious except yourself. Loud, obnoxious and abusive language will not be tolerated at any time.
Even though you used at least one free pass on your 5 visit coupon prior to this visit, you still got a full refund.
Yes we recycle the brass. It helps offset the cost of range maintainance and insurance.
We DO NOT SELL non-brass ammo.
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If you think our ammo is overpriced, you may buy brass cased ammo elsewhere and use it on the range.
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Just so everyone knows, PICS does not give out any personal information at all. It's a bad joke we're trying to stop.
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I've posted this before about CCW firearms. We do not need to see that your CCW firearm is empty at any time. You may enter the store with it loaded on your person, not in a case, and after checking in, proceed to the firing line and shoot. When you are done firing, you may load and reholster your firearm without showing it to the RO before you leave the firing line. All cased firearms must be unloaded at all times except on the firing line.
John B
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February 18th, 2008, 08:54 PM #29
Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
True
Untrue. I never noticed it, nor was it ever pointed out to me. At the time the sign becomes visible, one has already paid for range time, and donned ear and eye protection. Your ammo restrictions are NOT in the written ruleset available at the counter, and that one is required to read on the first visit.
That's a flat lie. Nobody, prior to sunday, ever made mention of any ammo restrictions.
Had you and your staff treated me a little less like a criminal, I might have acted differently. Hell, if you'd admitted that your written rules did not contain a prohibition on certain types of ammo (they don't), and then refunded my gift certificate, all these hard feelings could have been avoided.
At least one? I count pretty good up to five. Six if I switch hands. One visit had been used. I still have a coupon for one free hour from my last firearm purchase, so let's call it even, eh?
Cha-ching! Is there any other reason for rejecting steel or aluminum cased ammo other than your recycling profit? I'd love to hear it.
Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition. In both .40 S&W and .38 Special +P. I'm sure there's others.
Who said anything about price? Sure, I was trying to save a few bucks, but it's not something I'd knowingly break a rule over. Your entire response seems to pivot on the mistaken assumption that I was intent on violating your rules. Had the rule been in the written ruleset, (and I'm sure it soon will be) then my failure to remember said rule would have been completely my fault, and I would not have asked for a refund.
I trust this is now straight enough for you.
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February 18th, 2008, 10:49 PM #30Active Member
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Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters
TAC
I stand by what I posted previously.
You come on here and attack our department manager by calling him an "idiot". I don't assume but judging by your remark about our manager, I can imagine how you reacted when the RO told you about not being allowed to use steel cased ammo on the range.
I don't see that it's any of your concern about what we do with our range brass that's left behind. Unless I'm mistaken about the Federal PD ammo you're talking about, it's nickle plated brass. No problem using it on the range.
JB
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