Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

**TAC** · February 18th, 2008, 10:14 AM

Why hello there old thread. For what it's worth, I had a less than pleasant experience at French Creek

2/16/2008, The range master tells me that I can't use anything other than brass ammo at their indoor range. Today was only about the 11tyth time I've shot there with Wolf or Blazer ammo, and never a word before. Whatever. That ain't the problem.

I asked the RM if said rule against steel-cased ammo was in the written range rules...a copy of which they make you read and sign before they let you in the first time. He says it's in there and proceeds to read the rules. Then he reads 'em again. Out loud. After which I say, "Fascinating, I'm sure...but I didn't hear the word 'steel' anywhere in there." Whatever. This still ain't the problem.

I asked to talk to someone in management, and go through the same procedure with him...at which point I get to the issue. To wit: Had the 'no steel or aluminum cases' rule been in print, then the fault would clearly be mine. As it was not in writing, I had solid ground for the following conversation.

Paraphrase of what I told the manager:

Had I known about said rule, I wouldn't have purchased 1000 rounds of steel-cased ammo. Since they chose to enforce this unwritten rule, I now have to find someplace else to shoot. That being the case, I can't use the gift certificate for range time that my dear wife gave me for Christmas, and I'd like a refund. Manager says no, because I used one of the free visits. And that's the problem. The idiot made me get loud and obnoxious in front of all his other customers over 45 lousy dollars.

And the kicker? It would appear that the only reason for their brass-only rule is that they recover and recycle the brass for fun and big profit.
Another kicker: They sell non-brass ammo. Yeesh.

I got my money, but they'll never see another cent of mine.

**PisnNapalm** · February 18th, 2008, 10:34 AM

I doubt I'll purchase another firearm there again.

During a purchase there, one sales man asked the other if I passed the background check or not. The one helping me shouted back something to the effect of, "Yeah, he's just got some minor traffic stuff." Ummm... Pardon me but that's my personal information you're shouting across to the other end of the counter.

I window shop there but, I'll probably purchase my next gun elsewhere.

**SteveXD** · February 18th, 2008, 11:21 AM

I rarely shoot there anymore.. WAY overpriced ammo and they won't let you "draw" your pistol or really do any drills for that matter. I go to target master now. It's just a 'tiny' bit better, but they have problems too...

**JoeWilliams** · February 18th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by JLStorm

I know of several ROs at french creek that are good at what the do, this guy needs to find a new job he told me to show him my cleared weapon, and I do not rent. I will continue refuse to let them disarm me while walking out of a gun store, sorry.

Know of any private ranges near trooper/autoban pa? I know of LPRGC, but I have heard that they are very hard to join. I talked to them a few years ago and because my schedule was a bit difficult they basically said I was out of luck due to their nights of meeting.

If you don't mind driving for an hour or so to the west, there are a number of private ranges at reasonable prices (read that $10 or so per year instead of the $300 or so per year private ranges here charge), and some quite nice ones. I'm "not allowed" to shop at FCO since the guys at the gun counter torqued my wife, on two separate occasions, when she tried to buy herself a gun.

**jtkratzer** · February 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM

I've never had a problem shooting there. The policy about showing your weapon as clear is silly for those who carry, but it's the rule, you show your gun is clear, go back to your lane, load up, holster, and walk out. No big deal.

Never had an issue with anything other than brass either. I've seen quite a bit of aluminum cases on the floor.

About their brass, they don't do anything with it. I was told a guy comes to pick it up and deal with it for them so they don't have to sort it or anything. I don't know if the guy sells it or scraps it, but either way...

Again, I've never had a problem at their range, not with the staff, not with the rules, not with anyone else. I don't plan on shooting there any more as I'm joining a club that's closer with 24/7 indoor access, but that's the only reason.

**TAC** · February 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by JoeWilliams

If you don't mind driving for an hour or so to the west, there are a number of private ranges at reasonable prices (read that $10 or so per year instead of the $300 or so per year private ranges here charge), and some quite nice ones. I'm "not allowed" to shop at FCO since the guys at the gun counter torqued my wife, on two separate occasions, when she tried to buy herself a gun.

Well, I'm likely going to go the private range route, (probably LPRG) but I'd like to hear more about these other places. I certainly wouldn't mind the drive.

**zephyr** · February 18th, 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by PisnNapalm

I doubt I'll purchase another firearm there again.

During a purchase there, one sales man asked the other if I passed the background check or not. The one helping me shouted back something to the effect of, "Yeah, he's just got some minor traffic stuff." Ummm... Pardon me but that's my personal information you're shouting across to the other end of the counter.

That guy pulled the same crap with me. Same tired "joke" (they don't really know about any traffic violations). Nevertheless, I didn't appreciate it. For several reasons I won't shoot or buy from there again.

**JLBIII** · February 18th, 2008, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by TAC

Why hello there old thread. For what it's worth, I had a less than pleasant experience at French Creek

2/16/2008, The range master tells me that I can't use anything other than brass ammo at their indoor range. Today was only about the 11tyth time I've shot there with Wolf or Blazer ammo, and never a word before. Whatever. That ain't the problem.

I asked the RM if said rule against steel-cased ammo was in the written range rules...a copy of which they make you read and sign before they let you in the first time. He says it's in there and proceeds to read the rules. Then he reads 'em again. Out loud. After which I say, "Fascinating, I'm sure...but I didn't hear the word 'steel' anywhere in there." Whatever. This still ain't the problem.

I asked to talk to someone in management, and go through the same procedure with him...at which point I get to the issue. To wit: Had the 'no steel or aluminum cases' rule been in print, then the fault would clearly be mine. As it was not in writing, I had solid ground for the following conversation.

Paraphrase of what I told the manager:

Had I known about said rule, I wouldn't have purchased 1000 rounds of steel-cased ammo. Since they chose to enforce this unwritten rule, I now have to find someplace else to shoot. That being the case, I can't use the gift certificate for range time that my dear wife gave me for Christmas, and I'd like a refund. Manager says no, because I used one of the free visits. And that's the problem. The idiot made me get loud and obnoxious in front of all his other customers over 45 lousy dollars.

And the kicker? It would appear that the only reason for their brass-only rule is that they recover and recycle the brass for fun and big profit.
Another kicker: They sell non-brass ammo. Yeesh.

I got my money, but they'll never see another cent of mine.

Let's get some things straight here:
You've been on the range before.

There is a sign on the door going into the range that tells you steel cased ammo is prohibited. It's been there for awhile now but you choose to ignore it.

The RO on duty that day has seen you there before and has told you about the steel case ammo restriction in the past.

No one made you get loud and obnoxious except yourself. Loud, obnoxious and abusive language will not be tolerated at any time.

Even though you used at least one free pass on your 5 visit coupon prior to this visit, you still got a full refund.

Yes we recycle the brass. It helps offset the cost of range maintainance and insurance.

We DO NOT SELL non-brass ammo.

************************************************** *************

If you think our ammo is overpriced, you may buy brass cased ammo elsewhere and use it on the range.
************************************************** *************

Just so everyone knows, PICS does not give out any personal information at all. It's a bad joke we're trying to stop.
************************************************** *************

I've posted this before about CCW firearms. We do not need to see that your CCW firearm is empty at any time. You may enter the store with it loaded on your person, not in a case, and after checking in, proceed to the firing line and shoot. When you are done firing, you may load and reholster your firearm without showing it to the RO before you leave the firing line. All cased firearms must be unloaded at all times except on the firing line.

John B

**TAC** · February 18th, 2008, 08:54 PM