Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Dallas, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    New people seem to be working the range at french creek, and the current range master (a thin guy with glasses) is a complete range nazi, and not because of safety sake, but seemingly do to inflated ego. He would not allow you to shoot at life size or police qualification type targets at less than 30' (I do most of my shooting at 7 yards). Many shooting drills were not allowed even if they didnt include holster drawing, and I was told to let him check my weapon to make sure it was clear before leaving the range which I refused since it is my carry weapon and if I dont load it in the range I would have to load it in the store or my car. I managed to slip out of the range without having to deal with clearing my weapon. I was not at all happy, I never got that kind of grief from any of the other range masters there. I guess I need to find a new range!
    -JL-

    "There are many important issues, but the gun-hating psychos who would flush the Bill of Rights down the toilet have changed that for me. I would vote for a puppy-killing, football hating, incestuous Martian if I thought he would preserve and protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic." - obxned
    "Don't confuse my kindness with weakness"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bristol, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    587
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    4155

    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    that's horrible! I hate power-tripped / mall-ninja types. I've bought a pistol there, but never went to the range. I've heard though, that weekends are bad.. full of unsafe idiots and wanna-be gang banger types, and warnings to wear flak gear if you go there.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SEPA, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    That is their rules at FCO...like it or not, rules are rules. I don't know of any range that doesn't have their own policies. I'm not trying to defend FCO, but you are whining over nothing. I used to work for FCO and I can tell you that their policies are similar to the other ranges that I have used. If you would see some of the knuckleheads that shoot at the range at FCO, you would understand. FCO pays a lot of money to maintain their range and it only takes a few people who don't know how to shoot to tear up the range. Having a firing range also comes with major liabilities for insurnance. If you don't understand their point of view, perhaps you should find another range.

    As far as shooting large targets up close. Once again, that is their rules and you can follow them or find another range. I've witnessed too many people shooting the ceilings at the firing range. I wouldn't want to be the owner and having to replace the ceilings because my customers didn't know how to fire their weapons.

    The reasons for rules is to protect you and the other shooters. Perhaps, you should set up your own firing range. That way you can allow your customers to do as they please. While you take on all the liabilities that are associated with running a range.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Quakertown, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    Many times its not the rule per say but how it is communicated to the members. If the "range master" would have respectful explained the rule as aubie515 just did I would guess there may not have been such a issue. IMHO most of these guys seem to have a chip on their shoulders and walk around with god like attitudes. They seem to forget that we are their customer and some treat the shooter as a annoyance.

    On the other had, despite aubie515's blind defense of ceilings - sometimes these ceilings are just asking to be whacked. Always just up there, smugly thinking they are always above us all. Oh, if it wasn't for us ceilings you people would get rained on. Bastard ceiling!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Worcester, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    80
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    I know who you speak of there, and he's not a bad guy. The Rangemaster is just doing what he is told to as he is fairly new there. The rules are not bad and are better than many other indoor ranges I've been to.
    I aslo disagree with the poster who said the range was unsafe and a flak jacket was needed. The weekends do get crowded, but I've been shooting there for years now and never felt unsafe. The one place I've ever felt unsafe was at Targetmaster where on the day I went the "Rangemaster" was a pimple faced 16 year old! I will never shoot there again.
    ~Wales

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Upper Pottsgrove, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Age
    43
    Posts
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    Never had one problem with any range officer there. I think i actually like the guy you're talking about. When you come in you'll see the life size targets on the safes they specifically say not less than X feet or yards and I completely under stand way. at close range you can hit the target where you want but still be a such an angle as to hit the floor ceiling walls etc... As for clearing your weapon, well I load it up and stick it in my holster every time, Never been told to show a cleared weapon to him, only heard him say that for people renting a gun.

    I don't know maybe he sees me enough to trust me or maybe he was having a bad day. I saw some officers shooting the other day and the idiot had his weapon pointing sideways on the rug at my stall. I told the range officer that I wasn't shooting next to anyone that couldn't keep the barrel down range unloaded or not. He came out and told the officer to keep it pointed down range. I could see why, especially during the winter vacation period, he would be extra causous right now. Seems like a lot of every now and then shooters are hitting the ranges right now, so it seems they've had some recent unsafe people in there. They seem to be keeping a close eye though.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    305
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    16

    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    My only bad outtng there was with some Police Officers,, completely unsafe ,,racking there slides while pointed in my direction,
    Weekends I steer clear. Weekdays are good and evenings aren't bad .
    Just duck if their are a pack of cop's there, freaking scary.

    I make it a point to talk to the range officers and have no problems with them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    41
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    Not sure which RO is being discussed. I've shot at FC numerous times, at many different times of day throughout the week, and:

    1. I've never felt unsafe.
    2. I've never seen any wannabes or gang-bangers there. If it was that bad I wouldn't shoot there, and if it ever does get that bad I'll stop going there. Just my personal view, but I don't want to be associated with those types of people.
    3. I have walked out of the range with my loaded carry weapon before. Instead of going to the glass to show clear, I just show them the holstered weapon in my waistband, and I get a thumbs-up. I've done this with more then one RO there, and never had a problem.

    There are reasons the ROs are strict, and in many cases it's because they see some genuinely dumb things done by shooters. Aub and I were there awhile back, and two young guys were screwing around in adjacent lanes. Not gang-bangers or wannabes or anything, just two guys messing around with each other, having fun. One of them took it too far and double-tapped his buddies target. Big unsafe no-no shooting across lanes, and the RO threw him out.

    Understand that FC is also a "walk-in" range where no memberships are required to shoot, so consequently they get a LOT of noobs who have never even held a weapon before much less shot one. As a result (and also because of insurance) they have no choice but to be strict. One accident from some idiot who's never handled a weapon before, and they could wind up out of business.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Μολών λαβέ!
    -King Leonidas

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philly area, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    All these problems are gone when you join a private range. Yea sometimes you get the jerk off but on a general rule people who pay for a private range are more prone to do the right thing.

    if I saw someone doing something wrong at my range I would get his ID number and report his a$$ ASAP. ranges are coming under fire and we need to keep all we have.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Dallas, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Bad Experience at French Creek Outfitters

    I know of several ROs at french creek that are good at what the do, this guy needs to find a new job he told me to show him my cleared weapon, and I do not rent. I will continue refuse to let them disarm me while walking out of a gun store, sorry.

    Know of any private ranges near trooper/autoban pa? I know of LPRGC, but I have heard that they are very hard to join. I talked to them a few years ago and because my schedule was a bit difficult they basically said I was out of luck due to their nights of meeting.
    Last edited by JLStorm; January 1st, 2007 at 10:45 PM.
    -JL-

    "There are many important issues, but the gun-hating psychos who would flush the Bill of Rights down the toilet have changed that for me. I would vote for a puppy-killing, football hating, incestuous Martian if I thought he would preserve and protect the Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic." - obxned
    "Don't confuse my kindness with weakness"

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