Need Some Lawful Help Please!!!

[bungiex88]

Not sure where to post this if im wrong just let me know. Im part of a vol fire company and there was a rule passed before my time and im trying to get it changed but im having a lot of push back from a couple older people. I believe I can get it changed but I would like to know a couple things on this. If our company allows guns in the fire hall and someone would come to the door late wielding a gun can the fire hall its self get in trouble if that criminal was threatening a members life and a member shoots him. And if say 2 members somehow get into it and shoot another member can the fire hall get into trouble. Not saying we have members like that I'm just asking because one of the older people had brought that up and would like to give her some explanation. My biggest thing is im down here at the hall a lot sometimes late and with the economy the way it is when we have a building full of expensive equipment and ambulance with drugs in it I could defiantly see a criminal coming to rob this place because they know what's inside. The company is considered private. I believe I can get it changed with the amount of people that don't like that rule of not being allowed weapons in the fire hall but I would like some key points to explain back to them at the next meeting. And the certain people that are giving me push back are the people that are never down here for nothing else but are 2 meetings a month which makes my blood boil when someone that's never here can dictate that I cant defend my self while im here at the hall. Any advice to push them back would be much appreciated im very passionate about the 2nd amendment and the whole constitution. I do live in central pa.

[bungiex88]

One more thing to one lady said it will lead to us carrying onto a truck which that will not happen but is it against the law to carry on a emergency vehicle in pa.

[tl_3237]

One more thing to one lady said it will lead to us carrying onto a truck which that will not happen but is it against the law to carry on a emergency vehicle in pa.

As a condition of licensing of ambulances:

028 Pa Code § 1005.10. Licensure and general operating standards.

(h) Weapons and explosives. Weapons and explosives may not be worn by ambulance personnel or carried aboard an ambulance. This subsection does not apply to law enforcement officers who are serving in an authorized law enforcement capacity.

This regulation is a restriction on the licensee who, in turn, mimics the prohibition in his company's employee and operational policy manuals.

I'm unaware of any other state laws/regulations.

[str8shooter]

Legally, if there's no policy or restrictions on carrying in the firehall, than there should be no criminal culpability on the part of the FD if a firefight breaks out on the FDs property. As far as a civil case goes, anyone can attempt to sue anyone for anything.

People, companies and public safety organizations often fear civil law suits more than criminal cases, and rightly so because even if some one is never convicted of committing a crime, they can still be held liable for damages in a civil lawsuit. Case in point, O.J. Simpson. Found not guilt of murder by a jury of his peers because of reasonable doubt, yet found guilty of wrongful death in a civil suit and ordered to pay the plaintiffs $33.5 million.

I also volunteer with a FD and like most we operate on a shoe string budget, but by necessity are heavily insured. Your FD may want to keep a written policy against allowing guns on the property purely as a preemptive measure to use in their defense should someone get shot on the property and the victim or their family sue the FD for implicitely allowing the shooting to happen due to the absence of a policy restricting firearms on the property.

[oblig: IANAL]

[Shodan]

You may want to think about what your answer will be when they ask, "what will you do with your gun when you have to go on a call?"

[bungiex88]

Well I was thinking to put a rule into place it wouldn't be a rule to allow or disallow but a don't ask don't tell. And if we have a call my trucks just in the parking lot ill just put it in my truck and lock it. I figured if we have a don't ask don't tell policy then the Firehall didn't directly say members are allowed or not allowed.

[PhillyVet]

As a condition of licensing of ambulances:



This regulation is a restriction on the licensee who, in turn, mimics the prohibition in his company's employee and operational policy manuals.

I'm unaware of any other state laws/regulations.

1. Don't allow, or disallow.. Simply make a motion at your next meeting to repeal the prohibition in your bylaws.. therefore it's neither explicitly allowed or disallowed.

2. I'm not a firefighter and don't know the PA Code on the subject, however, I would imagine that rule was put in place prior to Rep Perry's "Castle Doctrine" law which, in addition to the obvious, prohibits state agencies from regulating firearms.. Therefore, that provision may simply still be in the Code because it hasn't been proactively removed, but may be unenforceable .

[bungiex88]

I'm not worried about not having it on the truck with me that's no problem. I'm trying to find something I could slam them with to make them look stupid for trying to go anti 2nd amendment on me and many law abiding citizens that are members of the fire company

[Boots_DE]

Specifying a "gun free zone" makes everyone less safe

.........................

[lawman662nd]

Im no lawyer but a study concealed carry cases all over. With the would the way it is people are getting desprate and you being a vol. fire company im sure you guys have alot of expensive equipment to fight fires and rescue people. As the studies show theres more crime where people have no guns and less crime where people have guns and thats a fact. In your case it would not be a good idea if you do not allow guns where your publics money is or your equipment. Concerning the fire company getting in trouble for a robber getting hurt or killed my a member that was defending himself absolutly not. Theres laws that protect that not to mention the guy or gal would be a hero to the community. And if an incident happens in the fire company concerning members the fire company will not get in trouble thats why this country has federal laws and the state has state laws they are there for a reason. Now if the fire company becomes a "gun free zone" or a criminal paradise as i like to call them there could be issues with the organization if any of those incidents occure. For instinsce if a robber breaks in while there is people inside and hurt or kill someone not only is the robber to blame but the fire company will have to answer why was the building a gun free zone and a gun was brought inside to hurt or kill someone. When a building or organization becomes a gun free zone for one its an open invitiation for thefts and killers and two the organization or company needs to provide some sort of security to not allow guns inside. Its not law they need to but it sure helps out in court to fight a law suit. For an example the school in newtown right now is fighting a 100 million dollar lawsuit from the survivors for lack of security and the school was a no gun zone, or the movie theater in aurora was a gun free zone now there fighting a massive lawsuit filed by the families of the victims and the victims that survived. What it boils down to is how safe does your fire company want you to be. I hate when people have the nerve to disrespect the constitution, when you do that all your doing is stepping on the graves of your fallen, and spitting in the face of our founding fathers. Expect to lose support from the public and fundraisers if your fire company does fundraisers if the public hears about the 2nd amendment doesnt count in your firehall.