Need Some Lawful Help Please!!!

[bungiex88]

Not sure where to post this if im wrong just let me know. Im part of a vol fire company and there was a rule passed before my time and im trying to get it changed but im having a lot of push back from a couple older people. I believe I can get it changed but I would like to know a couple things on this. If our company allows guns in the fire hall and someone would come to the door late wielding a gun can the fire hall its self get in trouble if that criminal was threatening a members life and a member shoots him. And if say 2 members somehow get into it and shoot another member can the fire hall get into trouble. Not saying we have members like that I'm just asking because one of the older people had brought that up and would like to give her some explanation. My biggest thing is im down here at the hall a lot sometimes late and with the economy the way it is when we have a building full of expensive equipment and ambulance with drugs in it I could defiantly see a criminal coming to rob this place because they know what's inside. The company is considered private. I believe I can get it changed with the amount of people that don't like that rule of not being allowed weapons in the fire hall but I would like some key points to explain back to them at the next meeting. And the certain people that are giving me push back are the people that are never down here for nothing else but are 2 meetings a month which makes my blood boil when someone that's never here can dictate that I cant defend my self while im here at the hall. Any advice to push them back would be much appreciated im very passionate about the 2nd amendment and the whole constitution. I do live in central pa.

[bungiex88]

One more thing to one lady said it will lead to us carrying onto a truck which that will not happen but is it against the law to carry on a emergency vehicle in pa.

[tl_3237]

One more thing to one lady said it will lead to us carrying onto a truck which that will not happen but is it against the law to carry on a emergency vehicle in pa.

As a condition of licensing of ambulances:

028 Pa Code § 1005.10. Licensure and general operating standards.

(h) Weapons and explosives. Weapons and explosives may not be worn by ambulance personnel or carried aboard an ambulance. This subsection does not apply to law enforcement officers who are serving in an authorized law enforcement capacity.

This regulation is a restriction on the licensee who, in turn, mimics the prohibition in his company's employee and operational policy manuals.

I'm unaware of any other state laws/regulations.

[str8shooter]

Legally, if there's no policy or restrictions on carrying in the firehall, than there should be no criminal culpability on the part of the FD if a firefight breaks out on the FDs property. As far as a civil case goes, anyone can attempt to sue anyone for anything.

People, companies and public safety organizations often fear civil law suits more than criminal cases, and rightly so because even if some one is never convicted of committing a crime, they can still be held liable for damages in a civil lawsuit. Case in point, O.J. Simpson. Found not guilt of murder by a jury of his peers because of reasonable doubt, yet found guilty of wrongful death in a civil suit and ordered to pay the plaintiffs $33.5 million.

I also volunteer with a FD and like most we operate on a shoe string budget, but by necessity are heavily insured. Your FD may want to keep a written policy against allowing guns on the property purely as a preemptive measure to use in their defense should someone get shot on the property and the victim or their family sue the FD for implicitely allowing the shooting to happen due to the absence of a policy restricting firearms on the property.

[oblig: IANAL]

[Shodan]

You may want to think about what your answer will be when they ask, "what will you do with your gun when you have to go on a call?"

[bungiex88]

Well I was thinking to put a rule into place it wouldn't be a rule to allow or disallow but a don't ask don't tell. And if we have a call my trucks just in the parking lot ill just put it in my truck and lock it. I figured if we have a don't ask don't tell policy then the Firehall didn't directly say members are allowed or not allowed.

[PhillyVet]

As a condition of licensing of ambulances:



This regulation is a restriction on the licensee who, in turn, mimics the prohibition in his company's employee and operational policy manuals.

I'm unaware of any other state laws/regulations.

1. Don't allow, or disallow.. Simply make a motion at your next meeting to repeal the prohibition in your bylaws.. therefore it's neither explicitly allowed or disallowed.

2. I'm not a firefighter and don't know the PA Code on the subject, however, I would imagine that rule was put in place prior to Rep Perry's "Castle Doctrine" law which, in addition to the obvious, prohibits state agencies from regulating firearms.. Therefore, that provision may simply still be in the Code because it hasn't been proactively removed, but may be unenforceable .

[bungiex88]

I'm not worried about not having it on the truck with me that's no problem. I'm trying to find something I could slam them with to make them look stupid for trying to go anti 2nd amendment on me and many law abiding citizens that are members of the fire company

[Boots_DE]

Specifying a "gun free zone" makes everyone less safe

.........................

[Statkowski]

Not sure where to post this if im wrong just let me know.

It probably belongs in general discussion, but it's here.

Im part of a vol fire company and there was a rule passed before my time and im trying to get it changed but im having a lot of push back from a couple older people.

I believe I can get it changed but I would like to know a couple things on this.

If our company allows guns in the fire hall and someone would come to the door late wielding a gun can the fire hall its self get in trouble if that criminal was threatening a members life and a member shoots him.

Highly, highly unlikely since you've just essentially described a clean shoot.

And if say 2 members somehow get into it and shoot another member can the fire hall get into trouble.

No, but they can, if they survive.

Not saying we have members like that I'm just asking because one of the older people had brought that up and would like to give her some explanation.

The fire company has a solicitor. Ask him or her.

However, simply because the fire company doesn't disallow the presence of firearms should not, in itself, make the fire company liable since the company's officers didn't tell anyone to do anything stupid.

My biggest thing is im down here at the hall a lot sometimes late and with the economy the way it is when we have a building full of expensive equipment and ambulance with drugs in it I could defiantly see a criminal coming to rob this place because they know what's inside.

You can't use deadly force to protect property, in Pennsylvania. You can only use deadly force to protect your life or the life of someone else (I believe it's 18 Pa. C.S. 503 & 504).

The company is considered private.

It's not considered private, it is private.

I believe I can get it changed with the amount of people that don't like that rule of not being allowed weapons in the fire hall but I would like some key points to explain back to them at the next meeting.

What's the environment like out in the parking lot and off the property?

And the certain people that are giving me push back are the people that are never down here for nothing else but are 2 meetings a month which makes my blood boil when someone that's never here can dictate that I cant defend my self while im here at the hall.

Welcome to the world of Volunteer Anything.

Any advice to push them back would be much appreciated im very passionate about the 2nd amendment and the whole constitution.

The biggest problem is security of the firearm when going on a fire call. Where will it be stored?

I do live in central pa.

That's a plus.

I served seven years with our local volunteer fire company. They did not have any rules at all concerning firearms. Of course, the Fire Police were specifically prohibited from carrying (state law), especially on calls, and once on scene, when necessary, any firefighter could be drafted to serve as Fire Police depending on the situation. Ergo, it would be imprudent for any firefighter to carry while on a call. Plus, with bunker gear, air packs, and Lord knows what else, the last thing you want to carry is an additional piece of metal that would be almost impossible to readily access.

Our fire company hosted, and still hosts, gun bashes. People open carry at such things, even with beer being served. It's no big deal.

I think, really, their biggest reason to be concerned about firearms is the security issue. Liability? Again, they're not telling anyone to do anything stupid, so I don't see how they could be liable for anything.