When to get involved????

[nu3s]

As many of you in the Pittsburgh area heard last night. A man with a knife ran into a Target store and began stabbing random people. A young girl was taken hostage and stabbed several times. My question as a legal gun owner with a permit to carry, is......... What point and when do you get involved????? I am looking for real answers please.

[internet troll]

As many of you in the Pittsburgh area heard last night. A man with a knife ran into a Target store and began stabbing random people. A young girl was taken hostage and stabbed several times. My question as a legal gun owner with a permit to carry, is......... What point and when do you get involved????? I am looking for real answers please.

Good question, I am sure you will get a lot of answers based on the person. I would personally take the first chance I got to stop him once I saw the knife and the threat.

Here is a good example of the difference a person with a ltcf could make in that situation. He did it without shooting.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top...RhrWCM9dQ.cspx

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."

Dozens of other shoppers, who too could have become victims, are also thankful for the gun carrying man. And many, like Danylle Julian, are still in shock from the experience. "Scary actually. Really scary. Five minutes before I walk out to my car. It could have been me."

Police say right now they have no idea what caused the suspect to go on the dangerous rampage. (We will update as soon as we learn new information.)

So far, police have not released the names of the suspect, the victims or the man who pulled the gun.

[brsims]

The problem here as I see it is that no matter what you do, you're damned. There are those who will say that since you are not directly threatened you have no right to get involved. There are others who say that since you took the responsibility to carry a firearm, you also bear the responsibility of protecting your fellow citizens from criminal activity.

My stance is that I will act as my conscious dictates, and bear the consequences. I will not stand by while innocents are victimized. However, my actions in such a hypothetical situation may very well cost me in the long run in terms of criminal trials, prison time, and the loss of my rights as a citizen.

Be aware of the consequences of your actions. This is the only way you will be able to make the proper decisions for yourself, your family, and your conscious.

[brianinpa]

For me it would have been when the man with the knife began to approach a person with the knife in a way to use it on another person. Is that right or wrong? Like you my conscious would dictate to me what is right and wrong and then I guess a jury would decide the matter further, but I would make sure that it would be the DA pressing charges.

[brsims]

As far as I can see, a gun carrier (especially an OC'er) stands a reasonably good chance of being prosecuted either way he goes in this situation.

Either he pulls and shoots the fucker, in which case its homicide. Whether its a Justifiable homicide or not is up to the Legal system.

Or he stands aside (since he is not directly threatened), in which case he runs the risk of civil liability for not intervening and preventing the possible wrongful death of anyone who sustains fatal injuries.

Like I said, damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'd pull and shoot. But I don't have a family (or anyone else, for that matter) dependent upon me for support, financial or otherwise. Someone else may have to consider missing out on their kids growing up because the Judge or Jury decided the shooting wasn't justifiable, or the financial risk of losing a "wrongful death" civil suit.

[QuackXP]

Here is my armchair quarterback response.

If I felt myself or my family was a direct threat I would shoot.

If it was someone else I would have to be %99.999 sure that my shot would connect, was justified, and that I could insure the safety of myself and my loved ones.

There is no way I'm attempting a shot on someone who has a hostage in hand.

My firearm is to defend myself and my loved ones first and foremost. Defending someone else is a luxury for them and the level of scrutiny before I would defend a third party would be orders of magnitude more than for myself in my loved one.

That may sound harsh to some, but that is the way I feel. I'm not going to open myself to that kind of liability or increase my risk when I could retreat unless I was all but sure shooting would make a difference.

[Emptymag]

I can guarantee that someone will get another chance to stop him.

He's got an extensive record and he'll be released to do it again at the time of his choosing.

[mpan72]

As far as I can tell not getting involved is not a crime in instances like the op posted. I have seen this mentioned several times lately and don't know where the idea came from. Maybe Sienfield reruns?

I would intervene as sonn as I was sure the criminal was actually trying to harm people. I would hope so anyway. It is hard to say how I would react untill in the situation.

[brsims]

As far as I can tell not getting involved is not a crime in instances like the op posted. I have seen this mentioned several times lately and don't know where the idea came from. Maybe Sienfield reruns?

I would intervene as sonn as I was sure the criminal was actually trying to harm people. I would hope so anyway. It is hard to say how I would react untill in the situation.

I believe that not getting involved is NOT a criminal act in and of itself. BUT there is the possibility if someone saw an individual carrying a gun and not getting involved making mention of such, and someone else pushing a civil lawsuit for "wrongful death" should someone get fatally injured.

Wrongful death suits generally strike everyone in the area while looking for civil damages....its one of the POSSIBLE consequences we need to be aware of should we make the decision to pull.

[Just1more]

I don't understand how if you have a firearm for your own personal protection, you could be in trouble if you don't use it.

I don't remember saying I will protect all those who choose not to. We haven't joined the police force - and even their job is not to protect us - just uphold the law. so how could you be charged? I don't know how I would react though - it would depend on the situation I am sure.

If the perp was far away from me, there is no way I would go towards him in hopes i could stop them - I am not that well trained and fear/pandemonium may cause mistakes which I would not want on my plate. Tough question to answer.