No Ammo and WHY?

[tsafa]

I have not seen Federal .22lr bricks at Walmat since last August. It seems like Federal just stopped making these.

[Shodan]

I do not buy this. I have spoken to local distributes like Jerry's and they have not been getting normal shipments from the the Factories. It would be one thing if they were getting their normal shipments and just selling because they had a line out the door... this is not the case.

The distributors are not getting the ammo from their suppliers. Given that the factories have profit incentive to make as much ammo as possible and sell it, it seems reasonable that one of two things is happening.

-The Govt is buying it all.
-The Govt is limiting production and sale to the public.

Its one or the other. The ammo is simply not getting to the retailers.

Every distributor thinks they're a big customer to the manufacturers when in reality there is always bigger customers with bigger, more important orders.

[scruff]

I do not buy this. I have spoken to local distributes like Jerry's and they have not been getting normal shipments from the the Factories. It would be one thing if they were getting their normal shipments and just selling because they had a line out the door... this is not the case.

The distributors are not getting the ammo from their suppliers. Given that the factories have profit incentive to make as much ammo as possible and sell it, it seems reasonable that one of two things is happening.

-The Govt is buying it all.
-The Govt is limiting production and sale to the public.

Its one or the other. The ammo is simply not getting to the retailers.

Let's see some proof before putting on the tin hats. I know that ATK has a huge govt contract, but there's lots of other ammo manufacturers, many overseas. I doubt the Federal govt is snatching up Prvi Partizan, Armscor, Wolf, PMC, Aguila, Fiocchi, Tula, Golden Bear, in addition to CCI, Remington, Lake City, Magtech, Winchester, Ultramax....

After the panic started, stores were selling a month worth of ammo in a few days. I'm sitting on at least 50% more ammo than I was in November, since I topped off as the panic started. Lots of people are trying to build up a supply but started with zero. The pipeline has been sucked dry. Even if everyone stopped buying tomorrow, it might take a few months just to fill up the store shelves and warehouses again.

[stainless]

I went out last month to buy two bullets and couldn't find any. I decided to do my homework and not waste my time on the internet like you folks.

I consulted with my good friend Obama and he swore to me that it is the fault of

George W Bush.

I know the POTUS would not lie to me. So Y'all continue wasting your time....

[rikilii]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what's involved with setting up a small ammunition manufacturing plant?

[stainless]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what's involved with setting up a small ammunition manufacturing plant?

LOTS of money - just think of the liability insurance costs...

[Emptymag]

I do not buy this. I have spoken to local distributes like Jerry's and they have not been getting normal shipments from the the Factories. It would be one thing if they were getting their normal shipments and just selling because they had a line out the door... this is not the case.

The distributors are not getting the ammo from their suppliers. Given that the factories have profit incentive to make as much ammo as possible and sell it, it seems reasonable that one of two things is happening.

-The Govt is buying it all.
-The Govt is limiting production and sale to the public.

Its one or the other. The ammo is simply not getting to the retailers.

I think this has already been addressed, but is it possible that the distributor isn't getting the ammo because there are a shit-ton of distributors all requesting the exact same thing and there simply isn't enough to go around?

If it's "possible" the government is buying up all the ammo, it's ten times more "possible" that this is actually the case here.

I have not seen Federal .22lr bricks at Walmat since last August. It seems like Federal just stopped making these.

They probably HAVE stopped/slowed production in order to fill the orders for the most profitable calibers.
Several online ammo vendors that manufacture their own ammo are doing just that.

[fortysix]

Call them and ask them. They know whether or not they sold it all 1,000,000 rounds at a time. They are not stupid, they know what is going on in their industry.

Did Bloomberg also break the NICs checks monthly records? Did he pack the gun shows with the longest lines ever? Did he pack Cabelas with more people than they have ever seen, and 4 hour waits for your number to come up at the counter? Is Bloomberg making the phones ring off the hook all day long at all my local gun stores? Are background checks taking hours in PA or weeks in CO because Bloomberg has individuals buying guns by the millions, one at a time?

This has happened before. This time is the worst because the assault on our rights is the broadest and most alarming.

Finally, what are you going to say as things start getting back to normal? Why isn't Bloomberg buying magazines anymore? I can buy mags for pre-panic prices at several places. I certainly couldn't in January. Bloomberg gave up on mags but is keeping it up on ammo?

Exactly this. Even if there were a konspirracy, I personally have witnessed people, normal persons who I have met before purchase as many boxes as their arms could carry, including me. I am not an agent for nor employee of Mayor Bloomberg, and neither are they. In 2008, it was just like this, but half as bad, and I thought it was doomsday then!

I do not buy this. I have spoken to local distributes like Jerry's and they have not been getting normal shipments from the the Factories. It would be one thing if they were getting their normal shipments and just selling because they had a line out the door... this is not the case.

The distributors are not getting the ammo from their suppliers. Given that the factories have profit incentive to make as much ammo as possible and sell it, it seems reasonable that one of two things is happening.

-The Govt is buying it all.
-The Govt is limiting production and sale to the public.

Its one or the other. The ammo is simply not getting to the retailers.

It is definitely supply and demand. Jerry's isn't seeing normal shipments from the factories? Of course, because everyone that factory sells to has placed max orders, in addition to whatever they resell overseas to websites that sell right back here. I personally know a director for Remington, and he does say that their suppliers (primers, tubular brass, powders, plasticizers, brass sheet, lead, etc) are not keeping up with what they need. It's not just the guys that make the bullets.

UMC sold through their warehouse in a week. Their policy is to keep approximately 2 years of supply on hand at any given time. So they sold 2 years supply in one week. Think that doesn't put a hurting on their upstream? UMC doesn't mine the zinc, copper, sulfur, KNO3, charcoal, oil, lead, someone else does. Not only that, but someone else makes each component they use, and someone else refines the raw materials, and someone else upstream mines the metals. Now, you tax UMC, you're taxing whoever rolls the brass into tubular brass. You're taxing whoever alloys that brass. You're taxing whoever mines the zinc and copper (seen copper prices?). They are not related to the firearms industry (except peripherally), they have seasonality, they have their own customers besides their downstream relationship with UMC.

Say you go to the store and there's a run on bread, you may get angry at the bread maker, but the reality is that the company that grew the wheat may already be out of wheat for that bread maker and won't have more for 4 months. That's just the way manufacturing works. No one keeps years of supply around just in case demand suddenly spikes.

At the current market prices for zinc, copper, etc, no one mines these in quantities other than those precisely calculated through seasonality charts and pre-orders and futures contracts. That's just the way it is. They operate and hire and fire and layoff based on these cycles. If UMC can't get tubular brass, then they can't make bullets, no matter how hard they want to, no matter what the price they can get for them. If UMC's tubular brass manufacturer can't get rolled brass coil, no matter how badly they want it, no matter what price they can get for it or pay for the material, they can't get it. If that rolled coil supplier can't buy alloy to roll, they can only give one answer: no. Most of these are small operations at this point in the chain, and can't just magically double their capacity or ramp up in any way. If their ultimate seller, UMC, sells through 2 years supply in a week, how do you think small time upstreams can keep up?

Plus, the problem perpetuates itself. I tell the guy at work I couldn't find any 308, so he goes out and tries too. He finds the one box I didn't find, now you have one person who wants 9 (10-1), and another, me, who still wants 10. Someone like me who stockpiles all the time is fine, and I still shoot as normal, but eventually even I will need to buy more. So my demand is pent up, and when I find the ammo, I buy all that the store has or lets me buy. And then my friend comes in with a hand-written list of what he should buy *for himself* too.

Then you add in things like headstamping serial numbers on ammo, limiting ammo purchases, licenses for ammo purchases, whatever ridiculous things are being tossed around in Congress, and you got yourself a massive run on ammunition.

So no, I don't think that Bloomberg is in there buying up ammo one at a time in front of me in line at Insite. At least I didn't think that was him.

[Emptymag]

I have more ammo now than at any point in my life.

You know why?

Been through it all enough times to know to get it while the getting is good.
I'm one of millions of people who bought ammo they didn't "need". If I saw it, I bought it - I'll do without something else to pay for it if I need to, but I'm getting it TODAY while it's $9 instead of paying $20 for it later - IF I can find it at all.

If you're looking for .22LR , I have it - all of it. LOL!


~ Emptysecretagentmag

[Kramer]

I think this has already been addressed, but is it possible that the distributor isn't getting the ammo because there are a shit-ton of distributors all requesting the exact same thing and there simply isn't enough to go around?

That's what is probably throwing a big wrench into the machine.

If X number of distributors order X million rounds of ammo and X million Pmags etc, they will never see the light at the end of the tunnel.

But this is mostly caused by every dealer probably placing the same redundant order from at least three or so distributors...