CeasefirePA is coming to my school

[Emptymag]

Be prepared for the facile question "Why do you need an assault rifle." There are many great answers to this question and you should formulate your own. However, the common theme they are kicking these days is that the gun is the problem, not the behavior.

You can equate this to the Framningham study of heart disease. Was beef and bacon the problem or was the behavior? Even the biased editorial staff at the NEJM had a recent "article" extolling the danger posed by guns (early Feb if I remember correctly).

The best way to dress this down is to dig in and ask them for data, which they cannot provide. What they will provide are platitudes like "studies show that a gun in the home is X times more likely to kill someone you know..." ask for citations and additional data. Who did the study, what was the sample size etc... Use the scientific process to rebuke their foolish notions. You have a prime opportunity here to use the scientific training you and your classmates are in the process of receiving to rebuke these clowns. Be as critical as if you were peer reviewing a study on MRSA and COPD for example.

Taking the route of being critical and demanding scientific proof will help convert your classmates most efficiently. Your classmates are in medical school because they believe in the evidenced based approach, demand evidence. Also, be ready to regularly point out that the root cause is human behavior not the implements used to effect it.

Is this school Allopathic?

You prescribe some good advice there.

[Philiberty]

Be prepared for the facile question "Why do you need an assault rifle." There are many great answers to this question and you should formulate your own. However, the common theme they are kicking these days is that the gun is the problem, not the behavior.

You can equate this to the Framningham study of heart disease. Was beef and bacon the problem or was the behavior? Even the biased editorial staff at the NEJM had a recent "article" extolling the danger posed by guns (early Feb if I remember correctly).

The best way to dress this down is to dig in and ask them for data, which they cannot provide. What they will provide are platitudes like "studies show that a gun in the home is X times more likely to kill someone you know..." ask for citations and additional data. Who did the study, what was the sample size etc... Use the scientific process to rebuke their foolish notions. You have a prime opportunity here to use the scientific training you and your classmates are in the process of receiving to rebuke these clowns. Be as critical as if you were peer reviewing a study on MRSA and COPD for example.

Taking the route of being critical and demanding scientific proof will help convert your classmates most efficiently. Your classmates are in medical school because they believe in the evidenced based approach, demand evidence. Also, be ready to regularly point out that the root cause is human behavior not the implements used to effect it.

Is this school Allopathic?

Exactly what I would have said. I have my doctorate in physical therapy and he beat me to it. The evidence is in our favor, use it. Here's a couple really good reviews on the subjects of gun control and AR ban:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re..._final2004.pdf

[7998]

You prescribe some good advice there.

I second that opinion.

[thundrr1]

Waiting for a report on the outcome........

[DaveM55]

Please let us know how many times you heard "for the children"...

Save the children, Save the 2nd.

[Yellowfin]

Can they be reported to the administration as a hate group and kicked out?

[rwb1500]

And when they are done there they head to Harrisburg. This is a hoot, notice who they call their hero.

http://www.politicspa.com/preview-pa...-summit/46346/#

Off topic, but if I'm downtown Harrisburg and need a nice bathroom the Hilton is exactly where I go. Perhaps I'll drop in for this event and leave them some progressive thought of my own...

[jpkotor]

been real busy today so I haven't had the chance to update you guys. it went all right, didn't end up being a big meeting. I'll elaborate tomorrow, thanks for all the input and support.

[jpkotor]

However, the common theme they are kicking these days is that the gun is the problem, not the behavior.

I was big on asking them how proposed legislation prevents people from resorting to crime in the first place. I tried to make a point of the gun as a tool and not the reason for crime. I think in that regard it went well but the anti's were still like "hmmph, but we should still ban"

The best way to dress this down is to dig in and ask them for data, which they cannot provide.

Yup. They said nothing was done to study the effectiveness of the 1994 AWB so they don't know if it worked. I politely raised my hand and pointed out the CDC, NRC, and Jerry Lee Center for Criminology at Penn all found no statistically significant effect on crime.

Taking the route of being critical and demanding scientific proof will help convert your classmates most efficiently.

This was hard to do. I had plenty of data, so that part was covered. I was very polite but they were lying to often that I had to raise my hand to "ask a question" every 30 seconds. That started turning people off even though I was addressing it calmly and not escalating into a shouting match.

I.e. the lady says "We put this in place to prevent criminals from using the weapons our police find to be the biggest threat", so I'd ask "Do you mind giving us a breakdown of the types of guns used in crimes every year, like handguns vs rifles" and she'd have to admit "Well it's not that big a part of crime, but..."

Is this school Allopathic?

Yup.

And to clarify, my school didn't invite CeasefirePA, it was a student org (Students for Social Responsibility) running the event. I know some of you asked why doesn't the NRA get equal time; it's because no student org has bothered to invite them. The school itself doesn't step into the issue. The only student org I'm a part of has nothing to do with this stuff so I can't justify using the funding I have access to to invite the NRA. I think at most 20 people were there, so it didn't turn out being a huge event. I hope I at least got a couple people questioning the "statistics" anti's use.

Also, in all honesty, I wish the CeasefirePA rep was there longer. Our conversation was very civil, we granted each other points, and agreed to disagree. What was much worse was when the doc from Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR) spoke. He was just straight lying, providing fake or out of context statistics, etc. It was real shameful because as a doctor he should have better knowledge of interpreting data than some random lady from Ceasefire, yet he was way worse than her.

i.e. He presented suicide numbers in the US with a breakdown of method and told us we're a "gun suicide" society and need to better regulate guns to save our troubled youth. I raised my hand and the exchange basically went:

Me: "So you're saying our access to guns is CAUSING suicide? How does this explain a country like the UK, which has 4 guns/100 people having the same suicide RATE as the US which has almost 89 guns/100 people?"
Him: (Talking down to me because he's the big doc and I'm the measly med student) "What you have to understand about suicides is that they're not always premeditated events. Sometimes they're split second decisions and the access we have to firearms lets people contemplating suicide complete the act before the desire goes away."
Me: "Ok... so if what you're saying is true, why do we have a suicide rate of 12/100,000 and the UK is around 11.8/100,000? It seems like the British are just as good at killing themselves as us but without guns."
Him: "Well... that may be true. But we still have a problem with suicide that regulating guns can address"

After providing that completely stupid last response he just moved on with his presentation. So when I knew the level of stupidity I was dealing with talking to this guy I realized it was all gonna go downhill.

[jpkotor]

Oh also, the PSR idiot kept providing us statistics from the height of the crack epidemic which in no way accurately represents crime (and gun crime) in the last 10 years even. But it makes it look much more ominous so people think "Oh my god! We need to do something about guns!"

Total. Freaking. Idiot. And don't get me started on the lib-tard sitting behind me.

But anyway I have a big exam coming up so I gotta hit the books!