Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    The pro gun groups really have to get better speakers. I saw several chances to really give good answers but the 2 guys up there really dropped the ball a few times. The forum was civil for the most part but the questions were very hit and miss, so very good and some not so much. There was one pompous ass lady a few rows in front of me that just didn't want to hear what any pro 2A person was saying and kept throwing out rude comments. All in all, it was a good experience and I look forward to getting more involved and go to more events like this one.
    Your web muscles do not frighten me.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Hey guys, great showing last night..

    A couple of points.. I agree, the progun guys just didn’t seem very charismatic.. I think it was Tom Nelson (on the far right as we were looking at him) that kept misquoting statutes (referring to the NFA as the GCA of ’34, claiming the NFA outlawed MGs, ATF showing up at your door, etc.). We knew what he was talking about, but the speakers have to have their facts straight. Of course, Tom’s misstatements were just that (mistakes); Bryan Miller’s were calculated lies (such as his assertion that Heller said that you could own one handgun in the home and that was it or that Brian Terry wasn’t killed with a F&F gun).

    Viper, excellent point!! He refused to answer your questions because his only four possible answers would have been.
    1. “The president would never murder American citizens” – thus ignoring the fact that he already did, has admitted it and publically claimed the right to do so.
    2. “The President can murder Americans and there’s no right to defend against it” – thus admitting his approval of tyrannical rule.
    3. “It’s unconstitutional to target and kill an American citizen without due process” – thus admitting his president has violated the constitution
    or
    4. Recognizing the extreme dangers to liberty present in America today and admitting that there really is a need for Americans to be armed

    The first two would have simply made him look dishonest at best / tyrannical at worst, the third and fourth would have completely undermined his position.. Therefore he simply refused to answer your question.. The level of hostility he displayed towards you (during and after) is very telling of his integrity and character.

    Finally - Let’s not forget, HGC was created by the anti-gun “marketing department”. The tactic started under Clinton to try to defuse and confuse the faithful on the right and make the left seem less anti-god.. HGC, like the VPC or CSGV, is just a hand full of people (often the same people) portraying themselves as a much larger group.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman106 View Post
    Dan,

    .........Nice to meet you in person along with a few other fellow travelers this evening. I'm simpatico with your sentiments. .....
    Please never refer to us as “Fellow Travelers” again..

    “Fellow Travelers” were Communists; people who supported government sponsored oppression, theft and murder in furtherance of their fantasy based political goals.

    We are the antithesis of Communists

    I know you meant it as a joke; but for us Veterans and those who grew up during the Cold War, Communism (and everything associated with it) is hateful and evil.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    The daily times article for anyone interested.

    http://delcotimes.com/articles/2013/...6604759019.txt

    MEDIA — The Guns in America Forum focused on Constitutional Second Amendment rights to bear arms. What emerged as well was demonstration of First Amendment freedom of speech rights.

    Four panelists debated the pressing topic of gun rights, gun control and solutions to gun violence taking place nationwide. The Media Community Center had a standing-room audience eager to enter into debate, which frequently had panelists contradicting the veracity of information on either side of the issue.

    After a greeting by Media Mayor Bob McMahon, the moderating task was performed by Owen Powell, co-founder of Democracy Unplugged, a multipartisan, county-based organization that sponsors political debates and forums.

    Panelists were Bryan Miller, executive director of Heeding God’s Call and former executive director of Ceasefire New Jersey; John Linder, mayor of Chester and member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns; David Jahn, Libertarian and gun rights advocate; and Tom Nelson, member of the National Rifle Association and Second Amendment Foundation.

    Opening statements by panelists set the tone and agenda. Linder approached the matter from his perspective as mayor of a community with a history of gun violence despite some improvement in indexes attributed to citywide initiatives.

    Miller acknowledged that gun homicide was the most prevalent cause of death for a class of citizens, but he concentrated his message on the need to support legislation for universal background checks and bans on multiple gun purchases, high-capacity ammunition magazines and military-style assault weapons.

    Nelson argued that attempts to demonize the NRA have only energized gun owners. He noted the need for improvements to school safety and mental health systems, but also recognized the value of guns for self-protection.

    Jahn’s position could be summarized by his statement, “Once they take away our guns, we’ll never get them back and we’ll be left defenseless.”

    Students Sierra Baldwin, Wilquann Dorsey and Hallie Rumsey were invited to pose questions to the panel. To Baldwin’s question on a limit to the number of guns, there was some agreement that the responsibility of gun owners is the primary concern, regardless of number. However, Miller was adamant on a limit because it would remove financial incentive for resale by traffickers.

    Substantial disagreement was voiced to Rumsey’s question on where to draw the line on the types of weapons. Panelist argued about laws going back decades and even which jurisdiction had the right to legislate.
    The first of about a dozen audience questions rephrased Rumsey’s query. Would the panelists have drawn the line for the collection of Nancy Lanza, mother of Sandy Hook Elementary School killer Adam Lanza?

    “That’s tough to answer,” Jahn replied.

    If there was consensus on the diverging opinions on the status of guns in America, it was largely about accountability of legitimate gun owners versus violence by illegal possession.

    “I don’t want everybody in my city carrying a gun. They are all not responsible,” said Linder. “The fear of tyranny may be philosophical, but it’s real where people are dying. It’s not where we drawn the line, but whether we draw the line.”

    Those attending lingered to talk to each other and share views with panelists. Prior to ending, Powell acknowledged the cooperation.

    “I had some doubts,” he said about combining a large group with a heated topic.
    Proof Armed citizens make a difference. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=316012

  5. #45
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    I think we missed an opportunity.. There really wasn't any pro-2A/Pro-gun literature at the tables last night..

    I printed Guy Smith’s “2012 Gun Facts” a couple of weeks ago to have as a pocket sized reference. The book is a great resource, but is almost unknown outside of the diehard pro-2A community.

    If we had, perhaps, 100 copies printed as pocket sized books and started putting them out at these types of events, I think we could get some of the fence-sitters in the audience to actually pick it up and read it.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #46
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyVet View Post
    I think we missed an opportunity.. There really wasn't any pro-2A/Pro-gun literature at the tables last night..

    I printed Guy Smith’s “2012 Gun Facts” a couple of weeks ago to have as a pocket sized reference. The book is a great resource, but is almost unknown outside of the diehard pro-2A community.

    If we had, perhaps, 100 copies printed as pocket sized books and started putting them out at these types of events, I think we could get some of the fence-sitters in the audience to actually pick it up and read it.
    Agree, hindsight is always 20-20. I thought the same thing AFTER I got there.
    NRA Training Counselor, Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Benefactor Member



  7. #47
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyVet View Post
    Hey guys, great showing last night..

    A couple of points.. I agree, the progun guys just didn’t seem very charismatic.. I think it was Tom Nelson (on the far right as we were looking at him) that kept misquoting statutes (referring to the NFA as the GCA of ’34, claiming the NFA outlawed MGs, ATF showing up at your door, etc.). We knew what he was talking about, but the speakers have to have their facts straight. Of course, Tom’s misstatements were just that (mistakes); Bryan Miller’s were calculated lies (such as his assertion that Heller said that you could own one handgun in the home and that was it or that Brian Terry wasn’t killed with a F&F gun).

    Viper, excellent point!! He refused to answer your questions because his only four possible answers would have been.
    1. “The president would never murder American citizens” – thus ignoring the fact that he already did, has admitted it and publically claimed the right to do so.
    2. “The President can murder Americans and there’s no right to defend against it” – thus admitting his approval of tyrannical rule.
    3. “It’s unconstitutional to target and kill an American citizen without due process” – thus admitting his president has violated the constitution
    or
    4. Recognizing the extreme dangers to liberty present in America today and admitting that there really is a need for Americans to be armed

    The first two would have simply made him look dishonest at best / tyrannical at worst, the third and fourth would have completely undermined his position.. Therefore he simply refused to answer your question.. The level of hostility he displayed towards you (during and after) is very telling of his integrity and character.

    Finally - Let’s not forget, HGC was created by the anti-gun “marketing department”. The tactic started under Clinton to try to defuse and confuse the faithful on the right and make the left seem less anti-god.. HGC, like the VPC or CSGV, is just a hand full of people (often the same people) portraying themselves as a much larger group.
    Honestly, I still have no idea how these two pro gun NRA members were chosen. They had solid credentials but were poor speakers. The Mayor and even Miller were better at volume and presentation. HONESTLY, I would have preferred that Mark (open Carry Guy (ViperGTS)who spoke beautifully on Michael Smirkonish and other local news coverage) and I were up there. Our facts are in our head and we speak from truth and general understood knowledge. The opening statements were read aloud and were honestly boring.
    Last edited by Dannytheman; March 8th, 2013 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Added ViperGTS web forum name.
    NRA Training Counselor, Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Benefactor Member



  8. #48
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannytheman View Post
    Honestly, I still have no idea how these two pro gun NRA members were chosen. They had solid credentials but were poor speakers. The Mayor and even Miller were better at volume and presentation. HONESTLY, I would have preferred that Mark (open Carry Guy (ViperGTS)who spoke beautifully on Michael Smirkonish and other local news coverage) and I were up there. Our facts are in our head and we speak from truth and general understood knowledge. The opening statements were read aloud and were honestly boring.

    I understand this was arranged by a long time Anti-gun guy. I'm guessing he's the one who chose the presenters - I'm not saying that the two Pro-2A guys weren't genuine, just saying it may have been a rig.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyVet View Post
    I understand this was arranged by a long time Anti-gun guy. I'm guessing he's the one who chose the presenters - I'm not saying that the two Pro-2A guys weren't genuine, just saying it may have been a rig.
    I do know that NO ONE at NRA headquarters in Fairfax, VA knew they would be speaking. I am not knocking them, they did the best they could with their skill set, they just were not dynamic enough.
    NRA Training Counselor, Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Benefactor Member



  10. #50
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    Default Re: March 7th GUN FORUM meeting (Lead by ANTI's)

    This is the moderator from the forum, just to fill you folks in on a coupla details. I was the main organizer for the event, and I don't have a big interest in the issue. Also, both the national NRA and Gun owners of America were contacted, by phone and email. I spoke to both organizations and requested a speaker. The NRA said they'd find a speaker and get back to me - never happened, pretty much the same thing with the other organization. So I had to scramble and do the best I could with local speakers. I also reached out to try and find a coupla of young gun enthusiasts for the student panel but the ones I talked to didn't want to do it. btw, the "other side" has been emailing me all day with similar complaints. It's pretty typical for these kind of events. Despite the blemishes, "the show must go on" thanks -O

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