Transfer Laws?

[chrischoi]

Just a little confused. A friend and I went to the FFL near me. He was buying my hand gun. They ask who is the purchaser and ask for my friend's ID. He provides his Virginia driver's license and military ID. They immediately asked for his orders. (Insert Metal Gear Solid Alert Here). So random. So by coincidence, he had them on him. They made copies. They asked him where he was stationed, blah blah. So he's stationed in VA. His place of residence is PA. They denied him. Informed us we'd have to wait for his PA license. Never sold before... but was it always like that? So to buy a firearm, you can't buy one out of state?

What boggles my mind is... while he was in Virginia or when he goes back this week. I could mail this to his nearest FFL. They could complete the transfer there and he could bring it back to PA. I know it's not the guys at the FFL as they are always a pleasure to deal with. But the laws are just lame. Just a rant. Do you think it was just because he was active duty? Did that change? What if we were to go somewhere else and use a DL and passport? Are we obligated to notify the FFL if someone is active duty now? I just didn't understand it and was looking for clarification. Please don't flame me. I did a brief search and it's a legit question.

Thanks!

[jerkin]

Oops, read it wrong and thought you were purchasing from him, that's what I get for posting at 2am instead of sleeping, lol.

[donm]

He provides his Virginia driver's license and military ID. They immediately asked for his orders. (Insert Metal Gear Solid Alert Here). So random. So by coincidence, he had them on him. They made copies. They asked him where he was stationed, blah blah. So he's stationed in VA. His place of residence is PA. They denied him. Informed us we'd have to wait for his PA license. Never sold before... but was it always like that? So to buy a firearm, you can't buy one out of state?

1) No, you can't take possession of a handgun outside your state of residence (Federal law). A long gun can be transferred in any state, and requires no paperwork at all if you're both PA residents.
2) VA DL and stationed in VA -- how does that make him a PA resident?

[internet troll]

I thought there would be a simple answer for this, but found this on Calgun.net which seems to indicate the answer is not simple.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a.../t-565585.html which addresses some of your questions.

Also check out page four question 2 of this pdf from the atf which is the actual form you fill out when transferring a firearm. It addresses military buying firearms out of state.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

I don't know enough to give you a direct answer, but the above readings may help.

[tl_3237]

Just a little confused. A friend and I went to the FFL near me. He was buying my hand gun. They ask who is the purchaser and ask for my friend's ID. He provides his Virginia driver's license and military ID. They immediately asked for his orders. (Insert Metal Gear Solid Alert Here). So random. So by coincidence, he had them on him. They made copies. They asked him where he was stationed, blah blah. So he's stationed in VA. His place of residence is PA. They denied him. Informed us we'd have to wait for his PA license. Never sold before... but was it always like that? So to buy a firearm, you can't buy one out of state?

What boggles my mind is... while he was in Virginia or when he goes back this week. I could mail this to his nearest FFL. They could complete the transfer there and he could bring it back to PA. I know it's not the guys at the FFL as they are always a pleasure to deal with. But the laws are just lame. Just a rant. Do you think it was just because he was active duty? Did that change? What if we were to go somewhere else and use a DL and passport? Are we obligated to notify the FFL if someone is active duty now? I just didn't understand it and was looking for clarification. Please don't flame me. I did a brief search and it's a legit question.

Thanks!

Under the Federal Gun Laws (Chapter 44 USC Title 18), an active duty's residence is considered their duty station. However they can also be a dual resident if they maintain a residence in another state.

The key question is whether he actually maintains a Pa residence and was he occupying it at the time of the attempted transaction. If so he is considered a Pa resident at time and the sale can be made by the Pa FFL [assuming all other sale conditions/laws are met]. ref 27 CFR 478.11 "State of Residence"

[Grey Bearded One]

Find a ffl that actually knows the laws and next time they ask you friend for his military paperwork tell him not to give them shit.

That FFL knows the laws. The FFL is in Pennsylvania, the soldier only has proof of Virginia residency (VA DL), his orders station him in Virginia so the transfer is denied.

A war fighter on active duty can have residency in three states. His home state, usually shown by his drivers license, the state where he actually lives which can be shown by lease/utility bills, and the state where he is stationed.

Asking him for his orders wasn't random, it was done in an effort to determine if he was a legal transferee in Pennsylvania. The photocopy was made for their records, it would have been attached to the 4473.

[jerkin]

Yeah I read it wrong, I thought the OP was purchasing the gun.

[internet troll]

Under the Federal Gun Laws (Chapter 44 USC Title 18), an active duty's residence is considered their duty station. However they can also be a dual resident if they maintain a residence in another state.

The key question is whether he actually maintains a Pa residence and was he occupying it at the time of the attempted transaction. If so he is considered a Pa resident at time and the sale can be made by the Pa FFL [assuming all other sale conditions/laws are met]. ref 27 CFR 478.11 "State of Residence"

Thanks for the info, like so many gun laws, nothing is simple and many things to consider.