SS# required for hunting/fishing license

[jerkin]

Wasn't sure where to put this and it seems like general gets the most hits, soooo.... I was trying to purchase my fishing license yesterday and they wanted me to enter my SS# into their computer. I refused and they would not allow me to purchase my license. There has been an entry for your SSN in the book of licenses they fill out for a few years but I always just wrote down a fake #. I don't need some walmart crackhead opening up that book and pulling all my personal information including full name, address, birthdate, and SS#.

This year the issuing process has went computerized, no more hardcopy book laying around. I'm not sure if the hunting licenses will be the same way or not, but you still have to provide your SS#. I thought this was illegal, I know from reading here that the PSP are no longer able to ask for it for firearm purchases but from what I have read this is a national welfare/child support reform law that PA is required to act upon.

Here is a link to where I read up on it at the PAFC site. I know it's fishing but the same law applies to hunting licenses also. I'm not posting the whole thing because it's kind of lengthy. http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/p...h_regs/ssn.htm

Here is a quote from their site.

Purchasers of fishing licenses, like holders of many other licenses and permits, are expected to provide their Social Security numbers when they purchase license. SSNs are routinely provided for many other purposes.

For what purposes are SSNs routinely provided? I almost never give mine out other than for a credit/loan approval. Does anyone else have a problem with this or am I being paranoid?

[JoeWilliams]

It is a violation of the Privacy Act of 1974, among other laws. So yes, it is illegal.

Their lame ass line "it is routinely provided for other purposes" sounds to me like they are fully aware they are violating the law, and are simply trying to justify doing so, so I wouldn't count on them issuing without a fight. You could always call and complain, and see if that gets you anywhere.

If it doesn't, are you rich enough to have extra cash laying around to sue them, and force them to come into compliance with the law? Are you willing to miss fishing for the next couple years while the court case(s) play out? If not, gonna have to bend over and take it with BenGay lube, provide the SSN, and go fishing.

[sinful]

Take this for what it's worth, but here's what I've gathered.

They're using a new system for fishing and hunting license. They keep all your info under your SSN so next year you just go in give SSN and all your info comes up and they print the license straight form the computer and away you go.

Less paperwork, less forms, less wait time.

Now I'm not saying I agree with the system, I'm just saying what I gathered from talking to the gun shop when I just got my fishing license.

[NoHackrLtd]

It's actually part of the "Deadbeat Dads Roundup" program. Haven't paid your child support? Guess what - keep running or go bowling. You'll now be taking chances fishing without the requisite license, unless you're stupid enough to put a fake license in your holder and get caught with it.

Support what you've sown and you won't have to worry about that part. However, with that being said, I'm vehemently opposed to that damned number, period.

Wait until Hillary dictates tattooing that number on the inside of a baby's lip after birth, just like racehorses have done to their foals....

[Snert]

I would goto a local shop, heck with walfart. support your local sport shop and see what they say to do. walfarts registerclowns are told do it or you have no job. So they have to follow the rules of the store manager, or corp. rules.

its just like in someone else's post on ammo purchase here. They went to walfart to get ammo, they asked for ID to scan it and said its the LAW. But as many have posted its all BS.

Just a thought from a NON-fisher, so I have no idea what the license process is for fishing license.

But as for the dead beat deal. I would venture to say anyone who works is on file. SO the fishing license thing sounds well kinda fishy...

Snert..

[N3HCP]

Here's an excerpt from the Fish and Boat Commission FAQ page...take it for what it's worth:

11. Do I need to provide my social security number?
Yes. The U.S. Congress has enacted a number of laws to improve enforcement of child support obligations. As part of a broad "welfare reform" effort, the U.S. Government has required that states implement requirements to encourage payment of child support. States that fail to implement these requirements face possible loss of federal welfare funds.
The "welfare reform" legislation contains hundreds of provisions. Out of this massive law, a handful of the new federal requirements affect purchasers and holders of recreational licenses, including hunting and fishing licenses.

One provision requires states to deny hunting and fishing licenses to certain persons in arrears on child support when a court issues an order revoking or denying such licenses. Another requires government agencies to obtain Social Security numbers from applicants for recreational licenses, including fishing licenses....

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/faqlice.htm#11
You can buy your licence on line. That way only the State gets to see your SSAN. You then print your licence from your computer. You can pick up the Summery book at anyplace that sells licences later for free.

[IV_Warrior]

From the PA Fish and Boat Comission's FAQ page:

11. Do I need to provide my social security number?
Yes. The U.S. Congress has enacted a number of laws to improve enforcement of child support obligations. As part of a broad "welfare reform" effort, the U.S. Government has required that states implement requirements to encourage payment of child support. States that fail to implement these requirements face possible loss of federal welfare funds.

The "welfare reform" legislation contains hundreds of provisions. Out of this massive law, a handful of the new federal requirements affect purchasers and holders of recreational licenses, including hunting and fishing licenses.

One provision requires states to deny hunting and fishing licenses to certain persons in arrears on child support when a court issues an order revoking or denying such licenses. Another requires government agencies to obtain Social Security numbers from applicants for recreational licenses, including fishing licenses....go to the fact sheet.

This one's from the fact sheet link in the quote above:

Q: I thought it was illegal to require someone to give out his or her Social Security number?

A: The law has changed. Under the recent changes to federal and state law, it is clearly legal to require Social Security numbers from purchasers of recreational licenses.

[JoeWilliams]

From the PA Fish and Boat Comission's FAQ page:




This one's from the fact sheet link in the quote above:

Didn't work for the PSP, won't work for the fishing folks.

If someone really thinks it's worth $10-$15K or more to fight about it.

[tmg19103]

Sounds like the start of a defacto gun registry. If you get a hunting license, you obviously own some type of firearm - and probably a long gun (unless you a just a bowhunter). PA already has a registry of handgun pruchases. Now they can get a better feel for who has long guns. They can keep a nice little file on you through all this data mining that requires your SSN.

[N3HCP]

Like it or not, Social Security numbers have, for all practical purposes, become the national ID number. Get used to it. Beating our breasts and mashing our teeth on Internet forums won't change that. If we want to change it, we need to lobby at both the State and National level to have these laws repealed. In the very unlikely event that were to happen, rest assured the government will come up with some other way to keep track of all of us. I'm sorry if I burst anyone's bubble, but if you think you can go "off the grid" and hide from Big Brother, think again. Big Brother's reach is very long, indeed. Every State, Federal, or local governmental agency you can name already knows your SSAN and all there is to know about you, or can find out in a matter of minutes.

IMHO this is not a fight we can win. The use of SSAN's has gone way too far to ever have that Gennie put back in the bottle. The best anyone can do now is to be vigilent and try to keep the number out of the hands of those who would use if for their own personal gain. I agree giving it to some kid at Walmart is a bad idea, that's why I get my licences on line. I also get, and send, my mail at the Post Office, thus reducing the chance my mail will be stolen. I carry no cards with my SSAN on them. This sort of thing is the best I can do.

Our resources are better used working against laws that can be changed and preventing bad bills from becoming bad laws.

Sounds like the start of a defacto gun registry.

Oh, we already have that, have for many years. Unless you have guns you got from Grandpa, Big Brother knows about them, don't kid yourself.


Just my $.05 (used to be $.02, but that's inflation for 'ya.)