Campus carry & HB40: response from state rep and cosponsor

[9orangeletters]

Dear Mr. [9orangeletters]:

Thank you for taking the time to contact my office about Act 10’s (the Castle Doctrine) amendment to Section 6109 of the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act. That law created subsection (m.3) to provide that a state agency may not regulate the possession of firearms in a manner that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code, Title 18. You’ve expressed the opinion that this prohibits a state system of higher education (PASSHE) school from regulating the possession or carrying of firearms on campuses beyond what is permissible regulation under state law.

To my knowledge, each of Pennsylvania’s state owned colleges and universities (PASSHE) has established policies which prohibit or restrict students, faculty and visitors from carrying or possessing a firearm on campus. Though state system universities have been recognized by the courts to be “state agencies”, I am not certain your interpretation is correct.

As I noted, Section 6109 (m.3) of Title 18 provides that “nothing in this section (i.e., § 6109 pertaining to licenses) shall be construed to authorize a commonwealth agency to regulation the possession of firearms in any manner inconsistent with the provisions of this title”. It would therefore appear that this is meant only to limit commonwealth agencies from relying on a provision in Section 6109 as authority to regulate firearms contrary to what is provided for in Title 18. Therefore, if a regulation is not inconsistent with Title 18 or there is authority in another section or another statutory provision, that would not be preempted by this provision.

Section 912 of Title 18 makes it a crime to possess a firearm on the property of a primary or secondary school. Though it does not apply to colleges and universities, there is nothing in Title 18 which expressly permits a person to possess a firearm on a college campus. Therefore, a regulation restricting possession of firearms on the campus of a state system university would not appear to be be “inconsistent” with Title 18.

Likewise, the General Assembly has given the Presidents, Board of Governors and Council of Trustees of state system colleges broad authority to establish policies for the health and safety of students, faculty and staff. Of particular note, the Public School Code (24 P.S. § 20-2009) provides that the Council of Trustees of a state system school may adopt a resolution to permit campus police to carry firearms if they have met certain training standards. The same provision allows the Council to decide by resolution to withdraw that permission as well. It would be appear to be inconsistent if the law were to permit the governing authority of a state university to decide whether to allow it trained police force to be armed but not permit them to decide if students, faculty and staff can carry firearms.

Be that as it may, whether the amendments to Section 6109 overrule the authority of PASSHE schools in this regard is a question I cannot answer. The interpretation of a particular provision of the law, particularly where two competing provisions might apply, is not something that a member of the General Assembly can decide and any opinion I may have would be merely my own and not binding on anyone else. Under the Pennsylvania Constitution, construction of the meaning of legislation is left to the courts to decide if a citizen disagrees with the interpretation given by a public official. Therefore, I would recommend that you consult with private legal counsel to discuss whether you might seek judicial review of Kutztown’s policy. I am sorry that there is no additional help I can offer you.

Thank you for contacting me. I always welcome hearing from citizens on matters of important public policy like this. If I can be of further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me or my office.

This is from Marcia Hahn, a co-sponsor of the bill.

So here's my question: which statute trumps which statute, and does the new section 6109 as amended trump an agency from creating firearm policy?

I have the number of the chief of security of kutztown (the university I attend) and was told that "he would welcome my comments", since their policy is under internal review, so I'm going to call sometime this week, but I was hoping to have some good discussion points.

[pittim]

I too go to a PASSHE school and thought about this. Since the school is state owned, I figured that they had to follow PA Constitution. This response really didn't help clarify, since as you said there are two statutes opposing each other.

[9orangeletters]

I too go to a PASSHE school and thought about this. Since the school is state owned, I figured that they had to follow PA Constitution. This response really didn't help clarify, since as you said there are two statutes opposing each other.

My next course of action is to talk to the chief or whatever of security.

I hear that the president of my institution is looking to leave his post, so perhaps now is better time than most to try to get something rolling during a transitory time.

[obo2000]

Are we discussing open carry or concealed carry with a LTCF?

[brsims]

Either or. Both are restricted on any SSHEA school campus (Edinboro, Indiana, so on and so forth.) Also restricted on PennState Campuses, which really pisses me off since I'm planning on transferring to PennState Behrend in Erie, PA.

[9orangeletters]

Either or. Both are restricted on any SSHEA school campus (Edinboro, Indiana, so on and so forth.) Also restricted on PennState Campuses, which really pisses me off since I'm planning on transferring to PennState Behrend in Erie, PA.

Pennsylvania state university is technically a private school.

[2DogsBarking]

"Section 912 of Title 18 makes it a crime to possess a firearm on the property of a primary or secondary school. Though it does not apply to colleges and universities, there is nothing in Title 18 which expressly permits a person to possess a firearm on a college campus. Therefore, a regulation restricting possession of firearms on the campus of a state system university would not appear to be be “inconsistent” with Title 18."


I always thought laws and statutes state what is PROHIBITED - therefore unless prohibited, it is ALLOWED!

[imburning]

Is there anything you can do if you go to a private university? After a string of robberies I was thinking of talking to the police chief/student affairs about reviewing their firearms policy but I wouldn't have the state laws behind me. Just talk to them and see where it goes i guess?

[jtm690]

The County District Attorney is the chief law enforcement officer of each county. The DA is the one who decides whether to prosecute, which entails the interpretation of the law. So, you may want to start there. The final arbiter would of course be the courts, which would be a fairly expensive endeavor as it would require an experienced attorney.

[9orangeletters]

For anybody still following along, I met with the director of police & public safety. He actually reads pafoa (hi chief) so he knew pretty much where I was coming from and helped me understand the lay of the land. A lot of our conversation was closed door so I won't go into much detail out of respect for the privacy and conversation. It would seem the legislature knows that they've created this conflict in statute, and are washing their hands of the situation, letting the courts take up the issue should it arise. There is no clear cut yes or no answer for whether or not LTCF individuals can carry at PASSHE schools.

The long and short of the discussion was the policy in place is just a policy, the worst that could happen would be being asked to leave (and likely expulsion) if discovered with a firearm; nothing criminal. I'm not sure if that also holds true for private universities, so that's at your own peril. The next steps look like writing letters to the president and board of trustees. I'm also thinking of contacting SFCC, but they've been kinda flaky.

That being said, would anybody like to help with a draft letter for the president and board?