What constitutes a gun "trace"?

[Keith A]

If you are stopped by police and they check your gun against the lost and stolen database, is that considered a "trace"?

I am asking because one of the information links in Feinstein's bill has a study that claims although firearms crimes haven't risen after the AWB, assault weapons traces have, somehow proving that during the AWB there were less "assault weapons" in the hands of criminals.

Then in the last link, the one where law enforcement officials brainstorm on ways to curb gun violence, one of the chiefs or whatever the hell he is, says that when police check if a gun is lost or stolen it is a trace.

I guess what I am getting at is that traces are reported up to the federal level. If getting pulled over or harassed for OC and your gun is checked, does this get reported for federal data keeping as a trace?

[Ret-Fed]

A simple check by a LEO to determine whether a firearm is stolen is NOT a trace.

A firearm trace is when a firearm has been involved in some type of criminal activity, and the firearm data is submitted to ATF by a law enforcement agency. ATF then uses various methods to determine the path of the firearm from manufacturer to retail purchaser.

[Shodan]

[4070BN]

Careful, your asking to get searched and made fun of by a Philadelphia school for that trace....

[dunno]

That's funny!

That looks like a pretty professional trace!

[Xringshooter]

A BATFE gun trace goes this way:

BATFE goes to the gun manufacturer with model and serial number of the gun and asks who the gun was sold/shipped to.

The gun manufacturer tells who the wholesaler was that the gun was shipped.

BATFE goes to the wholesaler and asks who the retailer was that the gun was sold/shipped.

BATFE goes to the retailer and they check the retailers bound book to determine who purchased the gun

BATFE goes to the buyer on record to get their story.

If original buyer sold the gun the BATFE will ask who they sold it to try to continue the trace.

If it was sold FTF (legally) and the person doesn't have anything to show who the buyer was, then the trace stops there. If sold through a FFL then they have the bound book entry at that FFL that they can continue on.


The OP wrote "If you are stopped by police and they check your gun against the lost and stolen database, is that considered a "trace"?
No it is not, it is just a check of a specific database to see if the gun was reported lost or stolen.

[Ret-Fed]

A BATFE gun trace goes this way:

BATFE goes to the gun manufacturer with model and serial number of the gun and asks who the gun was sold/shipped to.

The gun manufacturer tells who the wholesaler was that the gun was shipped.

BATFE goes to the wholesaler and asks who the retailer was that the gun was sold/shipped.

BATFE goes to the retailer and they check the retailers bound book to determine who purchased the gun

BATFE goes to the buyer on record to get their story.

If original buyer sold the gun the BATFE will ask who they sold it to try to continue the trace.

If it was sold FTF (legally) and the person doesn't have anything to show who the buyer was, then the trace stops there. If sold through a FFL then they have the bound book entry at that FFL that they can continue on.


The OP wrote "If you are stopped by police and they check your gun against the lost and stolen database, is that considered a "trace"?
No it is not, it is just a check of a specific database to see if the gun was reported lost or stolen.

ATF personnel at the ATF National Firearms Tracing Center, NEVER contact the retail purchaser. The ATF Tracing Center documents who the retail purchase was, and provides that information back to the original trace requester. (ATF agent or other LEO).

If ATF tracing personnel were to contact the retail purchaser, that action could alert a criminal to an undercover investigation, compromise an ongoing investigation, and possibly get an agent or LEO killed !

[Keith A]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought they were different but some unclear language in some of the stuff I read led to confusion.

[jw34]

I, as local LE, can do three things with the serial # of a gun:

1. Run it against the NCIC database, which only checks for that serial # being entered as stolen. Same things as NCIC check on the car's VIN, your Xbox, iPhone, etc. (National database maintained by FBI)
2. In PA, I could (erroneously) run it against the (illegal) Record of Sale database. (PA only, maintained by PSP) That should tell me the last person to legally receive the gun via transfer. Nothing else. The only time I can imagine a lawful use for this database is to try to return a found gun to its owner. Many other threads in here about how many cops are ignorant to the illegality of this database. Only handguns in this database, no long guns, (and other issues. )
3. As per dept SOP and memorandum from BATFE, I can submit a Request for Firearms Trace to BATFE, in an attempt to trace the path of a firearm used "IN A MAJOR CRIME."

[Xringshooter]

ATF personnel at the ATF National Firearms Tracing Center, NEVER contact the retail purchaser. The ATF Tracing Center documents who the retail purchase was, and provides that information back to the original trace requester. (ATF agent or other LEO).

If ATF tracing personnel were to contact the retail purchaser, that action could alert a criminal to an undercover investigation, compromise an ongoing investigation, and possibly get an agent or LEO killed !

Well. I'm going to nit pick a bit. I used the generic BATFE term, did not say anything about which BATFE personnel did what. I (my shop) was involved in a trace a few years back and a BATFE agent (and the PSP) DID contact the retail buyer once they checked my bound book, so I stand by my statement. I know it involved a BATFE agent because the purchaser of the gun told me. This trace was a result of the gun being stolen and was left at the crime scene (in a neighboring state). The purchaser had reported it stolen and the trace was done as part of the investigation. He later (much later) had his gun returned to him.