Need help with stats on legally owned guns vs illegaly owned guns

**Grimm** · January 17th, 2013, 05:19 PM

Him: Cant the government stop taxing me so much, and create a tax on all firearms purchased? I have more money the goverment has more money and these weird people get to keep killing each other... Perfect plan.

Response #1: They should tax the shit out of fast food. More fat f*cks die of heart attacks then people get shot by a dip sh*t with a gun.

Him: Difference being the people who die of heart attacks did it by their own accord. People who get shot, given the option, would prefer not to be dead... Just saying.

Me: Because most crimes committed with guns are by people who purchased them legally in a store...?

Him: Are the majority of guns in america illegally purchased?

Me: Are the majority of guns in america being used illegally?

Him: I asked first.

I need help trying to find a source for statistics on how many legally owned guns are in the US and how many are illegally possessed. I understand that its impossible to say for sure considering criminals don't report it when they buy a gun off the street and not every state requires firearms to registered. All i seem to be able to find is the FBI saying that for every 100 people, there are 88 guns. Does that mean 88 out of 100 people own a gun or does that mean that for every 100 people, 88 guns exists? Does anyone have any figures on whats estimated to be out there?

**tl_3237** · January 17th, 2013, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Grimm

Him: Cant the government stop taxing me so much, and create a tax on all firearms purchased? I have more money the goverment has more money and these weird people get to keep killing each other... Perfect plan.

Response #1: They should tax the shit out of fast food. More fat f*cks die of heart attacks then people get shot by a dip sh*t with a gun.

Him: Difference being the people who die of heart attacks did it by their own accord. People who get shot, given the option, would prefer not to be dead... Just saying.

Me: Because most crimes committed with guns are by people who purchased them legally in a store...?

Him: Are the majority of guns in america illegally purchased?

Me: Are the majority of guns in america being used illegally?

Him: I asked first.

I need help trying to find a source for statistics on how many legally owned guns are in the US and how many are illegally possessed. I understand that its impossible to say for sure considering criminals don't report it when they buy a gun off the street and not every state requires firearms to registered. All i seem to be able to find is the FBI saying that for every 100 people, there are 88 guns. Does that mean 88 out of 100 people own a gun or does that mean that for every 100 people, 88 guns exists? Does anyone have any figures on whats estimated to be out there?

Does "Him" know anything about the firearm/ammo tax which, since 1954, was/is:

26 USC §4181. Imposition of tax
There is hereby imposed upon the sale by the manufacturer, producer, or importer of the following articles a tax equivalent to the specified percent of the price for which so sold:

Articles taxable at 10 percent-

Pistols.

Revolvers.

Articles taxable at 11 percent-

Firearms (other than pistols and revolvers).

Shells, and cartridges.

**Grimm** · January 20th, 2013, 01:27 PM

I seriously doubt it. The conversation ended when i said i was trying to look up statistics and he responded with "i dont care about statistics bro". When asked what he was basing his argument on, he said its not an argument. He isn't a congressman. At this point, i backed out of the conversation. I know it was stupid even getting involved but i hate to see people spread such stupid ideas around.

**Philbert** · January 20th, 2013, 01:36 PM

A bit dated but this is what my memory suggested. Criminals rarely buy guns, but they often steal them from those who can

http://rkba.org/research/wright/arme...l.summary.html

Like other theft, gun theft appears to be an "opportunity" crime: most gun thieves (76 percent) stole guns when they came across them, not because they were looking specifically for a gun to steal. The purpose of most gun thefts (70 percent) was to sell or trade the gun to someone else, rather than to obtain one for personal use. Still most of those who had ever stolen guns kept at least one of them for personal use, usually because the stolen gun was a better quality weapon than the gun they were carrying at that time.

This is one reason I think it wise to make some effort to lock up guns, even if you don't have $10,000 to spend on a safe that will stop Ocean's Eleven. At least do something to make it less likely that your guns can be scooped up in a second and taken without a thought, or even used against you if you happen to come home at the wrong time.

**Marlin60** · January 20th, 2013, 01:58 PM

Not sure if this will help, but it's an article by government-sponsored PBS:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

In there, they state "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes..." If you can find a statistic for the number of crimes where guns were used, perhaps it would help. Then, you have http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp But I'm not sure if either site completely answers your question. If either site is credible, it may help a bit with some number crunching.

**spaideas** · January 20th, 2013, 09:20 PM

That 10-15% seems to be a bit low. I haven't seen any statistics, but I really have a hard time swallowing that 85% of all gun crime takes place with legally owned firearms. I just don't see gang bangers going to a gun store to get their gat. I'm honing to keep an eye on this thread to see if someone finds any good info.

Rick

**Philbert** · January 20th, 2013, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by spaideas

That 10-15% seems to be a bit low. I haven't seen any statistics, but I really have a hard time swallowing that 85% of all gun crime takes place with legally owned firearms. I just don't see gang bangers going to a gun store to get their gat. I'm honing to keep an eye on this thread to see if someone finds any good info.

Rick

The ATF's thing is that straw purchases and corrupt FFLs are supplying the criminal underworld. Which is unsurprising since that leads to more budget for the ATF and more laws to restrict FFLs and their actual customers (ie, us), which suits politicians just fine.

http://www.uclalawreview.org/pdf/56-5-6.pdf

**ShooterInPA1** · January 20th, 2013, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Marlin60

Not sure if this will help, but it's an article by government-sponsored PBS:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

In there, they state "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes..." If you can find a statistic for the number of crimes where guns were used, perhaps it would help. Then, you have http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp But I'm not sure if either site completely answers your question. If either site is credible, it may help a bit with some number crunching.

Bravo Sierra!

Probably more like 95% are illegal!

Two years ago we had a burglary and 3 guns were stolen. THAT is how criminals get them. They do not fill out Form 4473.