A proposed solution for inner city gun violence!

[Hokkmike]

The news said (Fox) that 44% of criminals in Chicago involved in a gun crime were set free. Low bail, probation, warning, plea bargain, no charge etc. The prosecutors are either too overburdened or lax in doing their job. The cops are likely underpaid, swamped, harassed, and fed up with the system. The cry for UBC's is a desperate plea for help. We all know of course, that the law is irrelevant and ignored by the gang bangers who use these guns......

We must have a SURGE plan against this element of our society. Let us saturate these areas of the city with cops, witness, and undercover snitches. Then, the legal system MUST do its job using existing laws. put this guys away and send the message that they will be prosecuted hard. This will effectively deal with the problem while leaving the honest and law abiding gun owner free to exercise his/her rights.

[streaker69]

I say we just take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Ranger P229]

Then, the legal system MUST do its job using existing laws. put this guys away and send the message that the will be prosecuted hard. This will effectively deal with the problem while leaving the honest and law abiding gun owner free to exercise his/her rights.

Don't bet on it. The legal system won't change, so even if you have a bulletproof case to convict Banger X of 15 charges, the ADA will still let 14 of them slide if Banger X pleads guilty to one charge. Why? Because thats what works out best for everyone. That ADA (and the DA, who most likely has political aspirations), just got another conviction without the hassle of court time. He, or she, gets to look "tough on crime" with a conviction record, while saving taxpayer money by limiting court time. Its a win/win. The banger gets to see his friends that are incarcerated, and with any luck gets a chance to move up in the ranks of his gang through peddling illegal substances inside or violence.
Even IF you have what should be an unbeatable case, a good lawyer can get a favorable jury, place some doubt in the mind of jurors using allegations of police corruption, or racism, and you end up with (maybe) the same sentence you'd get if the ADA would have just let the guy plead out.
Prison is not a deterrent to gang members. They KNOW they're going to end up there. In fact, most of them know they're going to end up dead at a relatively young age, so there really isn't much of a deterrent to stop them from doing anything.

[Hokkmike]

Don't bet on it. The legal system won't change, so even if you have a bulletproof case to convict Banger X of 15 charges, the ADA will still let 14 of them slide if Banger X pleads guilty to one charge. Why? Because thats what works out best for everyone. That ADA (and the DA, who most likely has political aspirations), just got another conviction without the hassle of court time. He, or she, gets to look "tough on crime" with a conviction record, while saving taxpayer money by limiting court time. Its a win/win. The banger gets to see his friends that are incarcerated, and with any luck gets a chance to move up in the ranks of his gang through peddling illegal substances inside or violence.
Even IF you have what should be an unbeatable case, a good lawyer can get a favorable jury, place some doubt in the mind of jurors using allegations of police corruption, or racism, and you end up with (maybe) the same sentence you'd get if the ADA would have just let the guy plead out.
Prison is not a deterrent to gang members. They KNOW they're going to end up there. In fact, most of them know they're going to end up dead at a relatively young age, so there really isn't much of a deterrent to stop them from doing anything.

I guess I am looking at it from my perspective. You make a lot of good points. Is there an answer then except to remove ALL guns from society....??? I sure hope so. Anybody else have ideas?

[ACRblaze]

I say we just take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I thought cockroaches could survive a nuke?

[Ranger P229]

I guess I am looking at it from my perspective. You make a lot of good points. Is there an answer then except to remove ALL guns from society....??? I sure hope so. Anybody else have ideas?

Well, legalizing the sale and posession of some controlled substances might stop the income stream to gangs from drugs. That still doesn't do anything to change the culture of gangs and gang violence though. You have a large group of young men with no family life, worthless role models (older gang members) and an entire upbringing that teaches them that violence is normal and acceptable, incarceration in inevitable, and they'll probable be dead by the time they hit their mid thirties.

What it boils down to is a need for jobs and a family. Of course, its hard to get someone to take a starting level job for 11 bucks an hour when their childhood friends are making a few grand a week pushing drugs.

So, how do you change an entire culture to make young men want to be fathers of their kids? How do you make positive role models? I have no idea.

You can't remove all guns from society. I mean literally, it couldn't happen in America. Take as many legal firearms away from folks as you want, illegal ones will be in abundant supply in criminal hands. Even IF you could, why would you want to? Upstanding citizens need something to defend themselves with from the criminal element.

[lemko]

A lot of these gang members have a very fatalistic view of life. They expect to be dead or imprisoned for life by the time they are 25, so they try to squeeze as much of their dysfunctional lifestyle into a very short window of time.

[thundrr1]

Chain gangs....... Make the prisoners actually contribute something to repay society. Make going to prison something that the criminals fear...... WORK.







Oh wait,,,,,,,,,,,,,that would be cruel and unusual punishment.


Sorry,,,,,,,, move on...

[ChamberedRound]

I guess I am looking at it from my perspective. You make a lot of good points. Is there an answer then except to remove ALL guns from society....??? I sure hope so. Anybody else have ideas?

In the end, we can't fix a society that's morally corrupt, but there are things we can do as citizens to minimize the temptation to be morally corrupt. In short, create a system that makes it easier to be moral rather than immoral.

IMHO, Congress and states legislatures should define more strict punishments across the board for all criminal offenses defined at all levels. In addition, reform or eliminate the ridiculously long appeals process for the death penalty, and require its use far more often.

Furthermore, we should reduce the "quality of life" at all prisons nationwide. Right now, prisons are a place of indifference for most would-be criminals and recidivists. They commit a crime, and they're sent somewhere they get 3 hots and a cot on our dime, TV, conjugal visits, etc., likely with better living conditions than where they were on the outside. We need to make prisons a place where they're downright AFRAID to go. Afraid for their health, afraid for their safety, afraid for their lives.

Put a credible threat of death on potential criminals of serious crime, and a credible threat of a "hell on earth" prison sentence on potential criminals of lesser crimes, and when they're at the crossroads they WILL think twice. And if they're dumb enough to do it once and survive the punishment, I doubt they'll do it again. Crime and recidivism will drop overnight, and costs to run and maintain these facilities will go down, reducing the tax burden.

The problem with this plan is finding the courage to make the tough decision to do so, because it will result in lots of claims that we're not "respecting their rights", despite their having committed crimes that often result in other's rights being violated.

Well, legalizing the sale and posession of some controlled substances

I also agree the removing the prohibition on a number of vices (drugs, prostitution, etc.) and turning them into heavily taxed, regulated avenues of commerce would reduce the burden on the prison system, and shut down the black market and related abuses surrounding it.

[ideaman]

My idea to reduce gun violence is to preserve a large area where all the gangs can come together and shoot it out to determine who's the top gang to receive all the drug, prostitution and reputation benefits. Then after the carnage the police or military come's in and take's out the rest of the scum.

Lower welfare costs and lower crime. Wallah!!