Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    19879

    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by footballpope View Post
    hi all...new here and frustrated.Wife bought a pistol for me for christmas from online store.paid in full.Gift was recieved at my FFL and when i went to pick it up it took the dealer 45 mins -1 hour to get thru to pics.When he finally did he was irate at the difficulty.Then he told me he had bad news,and informed me he had reached an"operator" and i was put on a 15 day research list.Well today was 15 days and he informed me I was classified "undetermined".He gave me a challenge form for me to fill out.In 2011 i was arrestd in Ohio for driving recklessly and pled guilty,and in the 80s as a teenager was given some summary citations,nothing serious.If I get denied ,what are my options?My FFL has my 500$ gun that i want very badly and i dont know what options i have!! help!...btw...my wife passed a pics in 15 minutes!
    There are some confusing point in your post...

    -wife bought you pistol for Christmas, when you say she passed PICS in 15 minutes, I'd assume this mean that she went to the FFL initially and picked it up?
    - Did she accompany you this second time to the FFL to fill out the proper paperwork involved for the transfer of a handgun
    -Since she is the initial transferee, did the FFL offer to transfer the handgun back into your wife possession?

    IANAL
    Last edited by SNAFUG36; January 10th, 2013 at 07:40 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    7
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by SNAFUG36 View Post
    There are some confusing point in your post...

    -wife bought you pistol for Christmas, when you say she passed PICS in 15 minutes, I'd assume this mean that she went to the FFL initially and picked it up?
    - Did she accompany you this second time to the FFL to fill out the proper paperwork involved for the transfer of a handgun
    -Since she is the initial transferee, did the FFL offer to transfer the handgun back into your wife possession?

    IANAL
    no sirree....i picked it out from buds guns online and we got it on layaway with money orders and a payment or two with our credit card...i got that instead of a necktie this year.....it was shipped to our ffl in my name....its my first handgun...he called me when it arrived and i went to pick it up and do the background check.FFL guy had a VERY difficult time getting through to pics....and finally he did but much to his dismay he got an operator on the line and he broke the newws i wouldnt be leaving with my toy because i was on research status for 15 days. Well today he called me and told me i am now on the undetermined status and gave me the form to mail which i did.....honestly,im worried in todays political climate they are arbitrarily stopping apps...i looked on this and the PSP guidelines for folks ineligible and my record doesnt coincide with any of their denial criteria...im paranoid they want to grab it before i can pass,to me it seems like a deliberate stonewall whill the gov manuevers to ban them....now my problem is my FFL has my 5oo$ toy and im gonna have to eat it.i asked him if he could buy it from me and sell it to my wife but i think that constitutes a straw buy.....i want to be on the up and up but damn im worried.....in august we bought my wife a pistol at gander mtn and she passed the pics in 15 minutes...im a novice but still getting cranky and nervous....thanks for the response bud1

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Uniontown, Pennsylvania
    (Fayette County)
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    So can anyone else confirm or deny that I need to wait 45 days for the Sheriff or PICS to decide on my status?
    Or Do I go ahead and fill out the challenge form before the 45 days?

    Also, does anyone know of a decent firearms lawyer in the western Pennsylvania area?
    "One must be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves” ~ Machavelli

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Morrisville, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Age
    66
    Posts
    42
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    So can anyone else confirm or deny that I need to wait 45 days for the Sheriff or PICS to decide on my status?
    Or Do I go ahead and fill out the challenge form before the 45 days?

    Also, does anyone know of a decent firearms lawyer in the western Pennsylvania area?
    It sounds like you have not been "denied" yet for your firearm purchase. When you do get denied the FFL dealer will give you a challange form. I don't think you can file a challange until you are denied. This is a real busy time for the PICS system and waits and delays are the norm right now. The PICS system handles all the purchases in the state plus all the applications for LTCF too. The State Police will notify the FFL holder, not the sheriff, the sheriff only gets involved in the LTCF. Check with your dealer and verify the wording the PICS operator used, did the operator say undetermined status or undisclosed reason? First one means it is still in the works, second one is what they say when you are denied.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by footballpope View Post
    no sirree....i picked it out from buds guns online and we got it on layaway with money orders and a payment or two with our credit card...i got that instead of a necktie this year.....it was shipped to our ffl in my name....its my first handgun...he called me when it arrived and i went to pick it up and do the background check.FFL guy had a VERY difficult time getting through to pics....and finally he did but much to his dismay he got an operator on the line and he broke the newws i wouldnt be leaving with my toy because i was on research status for 15 days. Well today he called me and told me i am now on the undetermined status and gave me the form to mail which i did.....honestly,im worried in todays political climate they are arbitrarily stopping apps...i looked on this and the PSP guidelines for folks ineligible and my record doesnt coincide with any of their denial criteria...im paranoid they want to grab it before i can pass,to me it seems like a deliberate stonewall whill the gov manuevers to ban them....now my problem is my FFL has my 5oo$ toy and im gonna have to eat it.i asked him if he could buy it from me and sell it to my wife but i think that constitutes a straw buy.....i want to be on the up and up but damn im worried.....in august we bought my wife a pistol at gander mtn and she passed the pics in 15 minutes...im a novice but still getting cranky and nervous....thanks for the response bud1
    No Sir, not a stonewall and nobody at pics is trying to "grab" your pistol. You're a victim of several circumstances and the first one is that the pics operators are comprised of 70 + civilians who are inputing your information into an already clogged network of background checks. In the first four days since the school shooting, PICS processed 52,000 phone calls! Another obstacle is that when a charge from another state appears on a criminal history, an analyst has to compare the charges and penalties with the "rules" to determine if ownership is appropriate. Many challenges have resulted in people being approved.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Uniontown, Pennsylvania
    (Fayette County)
    Posts
    2,075
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    12555211

    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by triumph_tech View Post
    It sounds like you have not been "denied" yet for your firearm purchase. When you do get denied the FFL dealer will give you a challange form. I don't think you can file a challange until you are denied. This is a real busy time for the PICS system and waits and delays are the norm right now. The PICS system handles all the purchases in the state plus all the applications for LTCF too. The State Police will notify the FFL holder, not the sheriff, the sheriff only gets involved in the LTCF. Check with your dealer and verify the wording the PICS operator used, did the operator say undetermined status or undisclosed reason? First one means it is still in the works, second one is what they say when you are denied.
    I wasn't trying to buy a firearm at a FFL dealer. I was put in "undetermined" status at the Sheriffs office because I was applying for my LTCF.
    "One must be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves” ~ Machavelli

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Mercer County)
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Originally Posted by footballpope
    hi all...new here and frustrated.Wife bought a pistol for me for christmas from online store.paid in full.Gift was recieved at my FFL and when i went to pick it up it took the dealer 45 mins -1 hour to get thru to pics.When he finally did he was irate at the difficulty.Then he told me he had bad news,and informed me he had reached an"operator" and i was put on a 15 day research list.Well today was 15 days and he informed me I was classified "undetermined".He gave me a challenge form for me to fill out.In 2011 i was arrestd in Ohio for driving recklessly and pled guilty,and in the 80s as a teenager was given some summary citations,nothing serious.If I get denied ,what are my options?My FFL has my 500$ gun that i want very badly and i dont know what options i have!! help!...btw...my wife passed a pics in 15 minutes!


    Hijack a thread much?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    7
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    0

    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonPACC View Post
    Originally Posted by footballpope
    hi all...new here and frustrated.Wife bought a pistol for me for christmas from online store.paid in full.Gift was recieved at my FFL and when i went to pick it up it took the dealer 45 mins -1 hour to get thru to pics.When he finally did he was irate at the difficulty.Then he told me he had bad news,and informed me he had reached an"operator" and i was put on a 15 day research list.Well today was 15 days and he informed me I was classified "undetermined".He gave me a challenge form for me to fill out.In 2011 i was arrestd in Ohio for driving recklessly and pled guilty,and in the 80s as a teenager was given some summary citations,nothing serious.If I get denied ,what are my options?My FFL has my 500$ gun that i want very badly and i dont know what options i have!! help!...btw...my wife passed a pics in 15 minutes!


    Hijack a thread much?
    im new here...im nice and im looking for advice/explanations......jerk....you happy now mr gun knowitall?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Morrisville, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Age
    66
    Posts
    42
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    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    I wasn't trying to buy a firearm at a FFL dealer. I was put in "undetermined" status at the Sheriffs office because I was applying for my LTCF.
    Sorry,I got confused an answered the thread hijacker, to answer your question the sheriff will notify you by certified mail if you are denied within 45 days. It may take the entire 45 days with the volume of LTCF applications they are processing these days. If you are denied due to the PICS check along with the notification from the sheriff there will be a challenge form. There are more reasons for the LTCF to be denied than a firearm purchase so you need to be very clear before you file a challenge you are not a prohibited person, check with a lawyer, put you mind at ease.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Uniontown, Pennsylvania
    (Fayette County)
    Posts
    2,075
    Rep Power
    12555211

    Default Re: PICS put me in "Undetermined Status"

    Quote Originally Posted by triumph_tech View Post
    Sorry,I got confused an answered the thread hijacker, to answer your question the sheriff will notify you by certified mail if you are denied within 45 days. It may take the entire 45 days with the volume of LTCF applications they are processing these days. If you are denied due to the PICS check along with the notification from the sheriff there will be a challenge form. There are more reasons for the LTCF to be denied than a firearm purchase so you need to be very clear before you file a challenge you are not a prohibited person, check with a lawyer, put you mind at ease.
    Okay thanks.
    Looks like I have one more week until the 45 days are up.
    "One must be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves” ~ Machavelli

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