Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #10811
    Join Date
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    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    Quote Originally Posted by halfast View Post
    Please accept my apology on the D*&$'S mention. Just to show you how out of it i am, I wasn't aware of any of that. Duh. Thanks for pointing out my misstep. I need to spend more time on the forum. I DID the google as suggested. Now, EDUCATED. tx.
    i hope my weak explanation on terminology wasn't too confusing. google does have it's methods of really narrowing to the desired results though and site: is one of them.

    https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...+Box&groupid=6
    Hornady 9mm XTP 147grn HP 25rd Box
    $14.95 or 10 or more $13.95
    i know critical defense 115grn and critical duty ?124grn?(non +p) normally LGS retail for about $20/box of qty 25.
    not sure if this is really a deal for online though.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  2. #10812
    Join Date
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    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    Am I missing something here?
    The only difference between the 2 rifles for $42.18 more is a front post and carry handle?
    But they are exactly the same rifle, same receiver, same barrel, same quality?
    Could use a second pair of eyes on this before I drop the cash.

    -----------------------

    DPMS Panther AP4 Carbine 556X45 16 inch http://grabagun.com/dpms-panther-ap4...556x45-16.html
    $556.18
    -$150.00 Mail in rebate https://dpms.rebateaccess.com/promotion.php?p=74841
    --------
    $406.18 Total

    DPMS PANTHER AP4 CARBINE, AR-15, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" M4 Barrel, Bayonet Lug, Birdcage Brake, Matte Black Finish, 30Rd, 1 Magazine, Cleaning Kit, Sling RFA2AP4A

    Semi-auto gas-operated rotating bolt. A3 flattop receiver w/detachable carry handle. W/E adjustable rear sight& A2 front sight assembly. Dust cover. Shell deflector. Round forward assist. RH ejection. Aluminum trigger guard & magazine release button. AP4 6-position telescoping fiber-reinforced polymer stock. GlacierGuards handguard. A2 flash hider (birdcage). Chrome-moly steel contour barrel. Upper/lower receivers: MilSpec hard-coat anodized & black Teflon- coated. Includes: one 30 rnd. mag & nylon web sling

    NOTE: AS OF FEBRUARY 1 2011 FACTORY NO LONGER SHIPS CLEANING KITS WITH RIFLES.

    NOTE: AS OF JANUARY 21 2013 FACTORY WILL ONLY SHIP ONE MAGAZINE WITH RIFLE.

    DPMS PANTHER AP4 CARBINE, AR-15, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" M4 Barrel, Bayonet Lug, Birdcage Brake, Matte Black Finish, 30Rd, 1 Magazine, Cleaning Kit, Sling RFA2AP4A

    SKU GAG_DPRFA2AP4A
    UPC 884451000020
    Manufacturer Part Number RFA2AP4A
    Manufacturer DPMS
    Condition New in Box
    $556.18

    -------------------------------

    DPMS Panther Oracle Black .223 / 5.56 NATO 16-inch 30rd http://grabagun.com/dpms-panther-ora...3-16-30rd.html
    $439.00
    -$75.00 Mail in rebate https://dpms.rebateaccess.com/promotion.php?p=74841
    -------
    $364.00 Total

    DPMS Oracle Semi-automatic AR 223 Rem 556NATO 16" Black AP4 6 Position Fwd Assist, Dst Cvr 30Rd Flattop RFA3-OC

    PANTHER ORACLE 5.56x54mm 16 " lite contour barrel Black finish Semi-auto, gas-operated rotating bolt Phosphated 8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated & plated per Mil. Spec. Receiver material: (RFA3-OC) 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy upper/lower receiver or (RFLR-OC) 6066-T6 aluminum thick-walled upper receiver & 6061-T6 lower receiver; Al materials are hard coat anodized per Mil. Spec. & Teflon coated black Upper: A3 Picatinny rail flattop; T Marked; Dust cover; Shell deflector; Round forward assist; RH ejection Lower: Aluminum trigger guard & magazine release button Barrel: 4140 Chrome-moly steel; 6 Grooves - RH; 1:9 Twist (5.56) 1:10 Twist (7.62); A2 Flash hider; Single-rail gas block Handguard: Carbine length, oval GlacierGuards w/ aluminum delta ring Pardus stock: (6-Position, telescoping fiber reinforced polymer w/check rest, curved & serrated buttplate, & multip

    DPMS Oracle, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" Barrel, Black Finish, AP4 6-Position Stock, 30Rd, Flat Top, Forward Assist, Dust Cover RFA3-OC

    SKU GAG_DPRFA3-OC
    UPC 884451002383
    Manufacturer Part Number RFA3OC
    Manufacturer DPMS
    Condition New in Box
    $439.00
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  3. #10813
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    $430 shipped - with Magpul FDE furniture

    Upper

    Lower


    GROUP SHOOT THISSaturday!!! (Oct 21 - Details Here) All WELCOME!

  4. #10814
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Berncly View Post
    Am I missing something here?
    The only difference between the 2 rifles for $42.18 more is a front post and carry handle?
    But they are exactly the same rifle, same receiver, same barrel, same quality?
    Could use a second pair of eyes on this before I drop the cash.

    -----------------------

    DPMS Panther AP4 Carbine 556X45 16 inch http://grabagun.com/dpms-panther-ap4...556x45-16.html
    $556.18
    -$150.00 Mail in rebate https://dpms.rebateaccess.com/promotion.php?p=74841
    --------
    $406.18 Total

    DPMS PANTHER AP4 CARBINE, AR-15, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" M4 Barrel, Bayonet Lug, Birdcage Brake, Matte Black Finish, 30Rd, 1 Magazine, Cleaning Kit, Sling RFA2AP4A

    Semi-auto gas-operated rotating bolt. A3 flattop receiver w/detachable carry handle. W/E adjustable rear sight& A2 front sight assembly. Dust cover. Shell deflector. Round forward assist. RH ejection. Aluminum trigger guard & magazine release button. AP4 6-position telescoping fiber-reinforced polymer stock. GlacierGuards handguard. A2 flash hider (birdcage). Chrome-moly steel contour barrel. Upper/lower receivers: MilSpec hard-coat anodized & black Teflon- coated. Includes: one 30 rnd. mag & nylon web sling

    NOTE: AS OF FEBRUARY 1 2011 FACTORY NO LONGER SHIPS CLEANING KITS WITH RIFLES.

    NOTE: AS OF JANUARY 21 2013 FACTORY WILL ONLY SHIP ONE MAGAZINE WITH RIFLE.

    DPMS PANTHER AP4 CARBINE, AR-15, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" M4 Barrel, Bayonet Lug, Birdcage Brake, Matte Black Finish, 30Rd, 1 Magazine, Cleaning Kit, Sling RFA2AP4A

    SKU GAG_DPRFA2AP4A
    UPC 884451000020
    Manufacturer Part Number RFA2AP4A
    Manufacturer DPMS
    Condition New in Box
    $556.18

    -------------------------------

    DPMS Panther Oracle Black .223 / 5.56 NATO 16-inch 30rd http://grabagun.com/dpms-panther-ora...3-16-30rd.html
    $439.00
    -$75.00 Mail in rebate https://dpms.rebateaccess.com/promotion.php?p=74841
    -------
    $364.00 Total

    DPMS Oracle Semi-automatic AR 223 Rem 556NATO 16" Black AP4 6 Position Fwd Assist, Dst Cvr 30Rd Flattop RFA3-OC

    PANTHER ™ ORACLE • 5.56x54mm • 16 " lite contour barrel • Black finish • Semi-auto, gas-operated rotating bolt • Phosphated 8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated & plated per Mil. Spec. • Receiver material: (RFA3-OC) 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy upper/lower receiver or (RFLR-OC) 6066-T6 aluminum thick-walled upper receiver & 6061-T6 lower receiver; Al materials are hard coat anodized per Mil. Spec. & Teflon coated black • Upper: A3 Picatinny rail flattop; “ T ” Marked; Dust cover; Shell deflector; Round forward assist; RH ejection • Lower: Aluminum trigger guard & magazine release button • Barrel: 4140 Chrome-moly steel; 6 Grooves - RH; 1:9 Twist (5.56) 1:10 Twist (7.62); A2 Flash hider; Single-rail gas block • Handguard: Carbine length, oval GlacierGuards ™ w/ aluminum delta ring • Pardus stock: (6-Position, telescoping fiber reinforced polymer w/check rest, curved & serrated buttplate, & multip

    DPMS Oracle, Semi-automatic, 223 Rem/556NATO, 16" Barrel, Black Finish, AP4 6-Position Stock, 30Rd, Flat Top, Forward Assist, Dust Cover RFA3-OC

    SKU GAG_DPRFA3-OC
    UPC 884451002383
    Manufacturer Part Number RFA3OC
    Manufacturer DPMS
    Condition New in Box
    $439.00
    If you click "additional information" you can see the manufacturer part number of each.
    Try going to the DPMS site and comparing there.
    Grabagun doesn't show full info for each so it's impossible to say how similar they are.
    Twist rates?
    Barrel profile? M4? Lightweight?

    On the surface they look mostly the same, but it's hard to say.
    GROUP SHOOT THISSaturday!!! (Oct 21 - Details Here) All WELCOME!

  5. #10815
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    As near as I can figure, these are the two DPMS rifles you mentioned.
    Unfortunately DPMS website isn't a wealth of knowledge either, but...

    Differences as noted from specs:

    DPMS AP4 Carbine
    4150 Chrome Lined
    Mil-spec A2 detachable carry handle
    (stock) AP4, Com. Tube
    Weight: 7.15 lbs

    DPMS ORACLE
    Lightweight 4140 Chromemoly
    Railed Gas Block / Optics Ready
    (stock) Pardus, Com. Tube
    Weight: 6.4 lbs


    Looks like the biggest difference is that the ORACLE has a lightweight barrel.
    I don't know what the difference is between 4140 and 4150 for the barrels.
    The Oracle has that goofy looking stock. (but that's just my opinion)
    Both have commercial sized tubes/stocks (something to consider if you plan on swapping out, but many stocks are available in either commercial or milspec)

    Aside from that, you need to weigh how you would like to outfit it with optics.
    GROUP SHOOT THISSaturday!!! (Oct 21 - Details Here) All WELCOME!

  6. #10816
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    In the can, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    Thanks EM.
    They won't let me rep you twice.
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  7. #10817
    Join Date
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    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    Looks like the biggest difference is that the ORACLE has a lightweight barrel.
    I don't know what the difference is between 4140 and 4150 for the barrels.
    I am no expert, but from what I have read 4140 vs 4150 steel relates to the carbon content in the steel, the heavier steel being stronger and able to take more heat.
    But it is complicated and also involves a lot of other factors.
    I do tend to prefer to buy rifles with the heavier barrels.

    Here are a few nuggets from http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=85420

    [Start Quote]
    Shafts: 4140 vs 4150?

    NickE (Materials)
    27 Jan 04 12:51
    the only difference I see in these two steels chemistry is the carbon content: 0.38-0.43 vs 0.48-0.53 for an nominal increase in carbon of .1%wt. The differences btw the steels in service is: additional carbon causes: less machinable, stronger, better quenching response (hardneability), harder martensite,lower corrosion resistance.
    Obviously as the difference in carbon content gets bigger the differences btw the steels will be greater also.
    Nick
    I love materials science!

    NickE (Materials)
    27 Jan 04 13:43
    I guess I have to say it all depends. If the material as specd from the producer at 110ksi UTS then thats its strength. Usually from lot/heat testing. Teh strength difference I mentioned is in the quenched and tempered condition. (same for each chemistry). The only good physical indicator of fatigue life is ultimate tensile strength since thats what governs the crack propagation speed. (Surface finish and geometry are really important too just not a result of chemistry/heat treat).
    <opinion follows>
    If you are'nt concerned about heat treated shaft then there wont be a significant difference in these materials. The additional carbon really plays a role when Quenched and tempered.
    nick
    (keep the wheels in the dirt you mean)
    Viva Pro-Le-Ralliatterials science!

    MOB1 (Materials) 30 Jan 04 01:31
    For a shaft of 12 inch diameter I believe that you would be better served using a higher alloy steel such as 4340 or better. This steel has superior hardenability response during heat treatment compared to either 4140 or 4150, that is, it will give superior tensile&yield strengths and other mechanical properties in larger diameters. This is important if you are doing considerable machining after final heat treatment.
    There is some argument that the leaner alloy steels such as 4140 and 4150 give desirable compressive surface stresses after quenching and tempering. I have doubts about this because of the generally high tempering temperatures to bring these steels back to the strength level required for optimum machinability and fatigue resistance. The tempering acts as a stress relief and any benefits from compressive surface residual stresses are negated.
    [End Quote]
    How can you have any cookies if you don't drink your milk?

  8. #10818
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Northampton County, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    I've taken all these courses but it was some time ago. Machine parts are Noah_Zark's dept. My department is materials for vessels and piping, which is simpler.
    http://forum.pafoa.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=5230&dateline=1441069  448

  9. #10819
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    middle smithfield, E.burg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    my understanding is that chromemoly is a high chrome content steel, where chrome lined is where they coat the inside of the barrel.
    chromemoly maybe cleaner bore cuts and chrome lined more durable long term.
    not like i'd let that affect my decisions with the prices we're seeing now a days.
    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    I've taken all these courses but it was some time ago. Machine parts are Noah_Zark's dept. My department is materials for vessels and piping, which is simpler.
    a barrel is a pipe, a twisty one.
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  10. #10820
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    NEPA, Pennsylvania
    (Wyoming County)
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    Default Re: Share Deals on Guns Ammo Accessories Here

    I stayed at a Holiday Inn one night & watched a YouTube video that said that most civilians will never out shoot the life of a 4140 barrel where they would have been better suited to buy a 4150. All joking aside I kind of believe that, but I am NO expert, and for only $40 bucks why not go the higher grade.

    I'm still baffled why some AR's are made with commercial buffer tubes though. Make them all with mil-spec tubes- damn.
    Home Based FFL in Wyoming Co.
    My feedback: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685

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