Can we sue politicians for violating our state constitution??

[K.C.]

I've been thinking about our local politicians who just don't get the second amendment and our own state constitution. Our PA constitution clearly states we have the right to bear arms and that right shall not be questioned. ( see section 21 http://www.pahouse.com/pa_const.htm)

Anyway, if the national laws were to infringe on our state laws, couldn't we force them to enforce our law or be sued by every gun owner in the state? Clearly the threat of being voted out of office is no big threat to them when they have lots of connections to find employment. Is this an option? What other recourse do we have???

[GunLawyer001]

I've been thinking about our local politicians who just don't get the second amendment and our own state constitution. Our PA constitution clearly states we have the right to bear arms and that right shall not be questioned. ( see section 21 http://www.pahouse.com/pa_const.htm)

Anyway, if the national laws were to infringe on our state laws, couldn't we force them to enforce our law or be sued by every gun owner in the state? Clearly the threat of being voted out of office is no big threat to them when they have lots of connections to find employment. Is this an option? What other recourse do we have???

You can always find some self-promoter who's willing to take on a case for the publicity and possibility of some settlement that's heavy in the attorney-fee end, but the fact is, the government gives itself immunity from almost everything that matters. So you COULD file a lawsuit, garner some headlines, get some attention. But it won't matter, and you won't win.

Criminal laws are hard to challenge without putting yourself at risk. It's hard to get standing based on "I kind of want to do that thing that it's now illegal to do". Challenging criminal laws is mostly done by people who could go to jail if they lose, so it's an unpopular hobby.

Suing the individual legislators is one of those DOA suits, your case won't survive the initial objections.

As to federal laws that infringe state-guaranteed rights.....go back to the 1860's, see how that played out. Maybe a dope-smoking president will allow states to ignore federal bans on weed, but until we get an MG-owning gun enthusiast in the Oval Office, don't expect that sort of benign neglect to benefit us.

[liberty556]

So the short answer is, if lawmakers write legislation that violates the Constitution, we must lay down and take it? How have we made it this far without a modern revolution?

You can always find some self-promoter who's willing to take on a case for the publicity and possibility of some settlement that's heavy in the attorney-fee end, but the fact is, the government gives itself immunity from almost everything that matters. So you COULD file a lawsuit, garner some headlines, get some attention. But it won't matter, and you won't win.

Criminal laws are hard to challenge without putting yourself at risk. It's hard to get standing based on "I kind of want to do that thing that it's now illegal to do". Challenging criminal laws is mostly done by people who could go to jail if they lose, so it's an unpopular hobby.

Suing the individual legislators is one of those DOA suits, your case won't survive the initial objections.

As to federal laws that infringe state-guaranteed rights.....go back to the 1860's, see how that played out. Maybe a dope-smoking president will allow states to ignore federal bans on weed, but until we get an MG-owning gun enthusiast in the Oval Office, don't expect that sort of benign neglect to benefit us.

[GunLawyer001]

So the short answer is, if lawmakers write legislation that violates the Constitution, we must lay down and take it? How have we made it this far without a modern revolution?

We have an opportunity to overthrow our government every 2 years or so, bloodlessly, at the polls.

If you can't get enough folks to vote them out, then you're even less likely to get enough folks to pledge their lives, honor and sacred fortunes on a more direct replacement method.

[mpan72]

So the short answer is, if lawmakers write legislation that violates the Constitution, we must lay down and take it? How have we made it this far without a modern revolution?

That is not what I got out of GL's reply. He answered a specific question. Trying to sue politicians would not work well.

[OldSchoolPC]

So the short answer is, if lawmakers write legislation that violates the Constitution, we must lay down and take it? How have we made it this far without a modern revolution?

Apathy. Also, a lack of collective will. Revolutions generally happen when something "big" happens, and the people go "enough is enough". Like, when a president appoints himself dictator and disarms everybody. It takes a long time for a revolution to take place, when evil creeps in INCREMENTALLY.

When it comes to guns, MAYBE if (when) they come door to door collecting guns, groups will spring up to "take back our country". Of course, such groups will be deemed terrorists by the mainstream media. So honestly, baring a nationwide SHTF scenario, I don't see a revolution happening in the country.

The headlines will never read: "Freedom fighters take back the whitehouse on behalf of the people.:

Instead "Domestic terrorists hold the white house hostage. They are shooting innocent people and demanding a new rebel government run by militant extremists."

[liberty556]

I agree, the response was a legal answer. IMO when government sets the rules so that it can't be challenged and those wrong doers in government can't be held accountable, what choice do the people have but to revolt. The damage may be done before the next election and there is no guarantee that the next group of people will be any better. How much punishment do we suffer before we respond? Should we be like the English "subjects" who are now left to only protest since they have lost all viable means of forceful defiance? It's too late when the boot is on your neck and the muzzle is resting on your head.

That is not what I got out of GL's reply. He answered a specific question. Trying to sue politicians would not work well.

[mpan72]

I agree, the response was a legal answer. IMO when government sets the rules so that it can't be challenged and those wrong doers in government can't be held accountable, what choice do the people have but to revolt. The damage may be done before the next election and there is no guarantee that the next group of people will be any better. How much punishment do we suffer before we respond? Should we be like the English "subjects" who are now left to only protest since they have lost all viable means of forceful defiance? It's too late when the boot is on your neck and the muzzle is resting on your head.

I agree that drastic measures may at some point be needed. I do not agree that we are there yet. It is a tough road ahead but I do see some light ahead. I have spoken with quite a few people that while not pro-gun they are por constitution. Many people who were on the fence have sided with those who stand against the goverment just banning an abject with out dealing with the real problem, the criminals. This has given me a little charge and makes me want to fight the battles with out the violence.

There are many things we can do to change the current states of affairs. I chose to fight by exposing as many as I can to oc and the fact that my gun will never hurt their family or themselves. I will also be getting much more involved in rallies and marches. I will get as many children involved as I can. If we all do our part and not just post what we want to do on the internet I think we can get something done.

[DSEN]

http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/01/sherif...fight-the-law/
This story is very interesting about the power of your local Sheriff
over other law enforcement including the Feds.

[liberty556]

I agree that we have options at this point but I think we need to be ready and committed to take action if that day comes. A deterrent is only effective if we all "turn our keys", thinking back to a cold war missile concept. When I say revolution I consider many possibilities. We could collectively stop paying taxes, we could collectively decide not to comply with any more gun laws, we could peacefully or not so peacefully protest, create civil unrest, overwhelm the government's ability to respond to a myriad of contingencies. I'm not advocating violence, nor do I want to overthrow the government. I realize that we must have some level of government, however, our current state of our government is out of control. All our fellow citizens need do is look at the current national financial debt and the avarice we see unfolding to "make the deal". Our government is a drug addict that is doing its best to stay high at all costs and that drug is POWER. Perhaps our best plan is to outlast the government, let it implode from its own girth and then step in to re-build.

I agree that drastic measures may at some point be needed. I do not agree that we are there yet. It is a tough road ahead but I do see some light ahead. I have spoken with quite a few people that while not pro-gun they are por constitution. Many people who were on the fence have sided with those who stand against the goverment just banning an abject with out dealing with the real problem, the criminals. This has given me a little charge and makes me want to fight the battles with out the violence.

There are many things we can do to change the current states of affairs. I chose to fight by exposing as many as I can to oc and the fact that my gun will never hurt their family or themselves. I will also be getting much more involved in rallies and marches. I will get as many children involved as I can. If we all do our part and not just post what we want to do on the internet I think we can get something done.