Harrisburg 23 Jan 2013 10:00 start

[ungawa]

There is no way I will be there if anybody is requesting we don't OC. We open carry to all events at the Capitol.

[nater99]

Sounds like a good idea and I'd love to be involved. I don't have a ton of free time, but I'm sort of the go to letter writer at work and would be more than willing to volunteer for anything of that sort. I'm all for OC at this event, but I do think we need to keep in mind how it might get twisted in the media.

There's been some talk of a theme. I'm curious what the thoughts would be if we sort of turned the whole thing on its head and went there with the purpose of protecting the 2a rights of the anti's who don't yet realize they need them. Or something to the effect that this is a high crime area and a bunch of protesters who the criminals know won't have guns make a great target, we're here for their protection.

Part of the reason I go with the protection of their 2a rights is that I was opposed to high capacity and assault weapons (I'm ashamed to admit even handguns) up until about 13 or 14 years ago. Then I started thinking for myself and realized how ridiculous it was. I'm glad there were people out there who were willing to stand up and protect my rights even though I didn't yet understand that I needed them to do it.

[PreserveandProtect]

The above posts illustrate the problem in our community. If we fail this will be why. I will not attend or support a rally that doesn't want OC, or long arms. I will not support those who will not support me, and will not support the right to keep and bear arms in all forms. We must hang together gentlemen, or we will most assuredly hang seperately.

If you don't want long guns or OC then count me out. And BTW, OC is not an expansion of rights. It's already legal and many of us do it every day.



F them! Start some trouble! Have you read about what happened in England and Australia?

The handgunners wouldn't back the shotgunners, and the shotgunners wouldn't back the rifle shooters, and the target shooters wouldn't back the hunters, and the hunters wouldn't back the handgunners. They got divided and they got conquered. The sentiment that says "No OC." or "No long guns." is the same sentiment that allowed Fudd hunters to back the '94 AWB because it wasn't their ox being gored.

Are we goign to stand by and let history repeat itself? No, we need to speak up and be counted.

If I can sling my AR, and OC the pistol I OC every day (weather permitting) then I will be glad to be there. Otherwise, you guys have fun. I'll watch ya on the lame stream snews.

Wow. I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm and strong convictions. Let me clarify a few things so we don't get off track.

OC comments: Are we in a State of Emergency or not? There are other threads about this. Although I think an idiot wrote the regulation that *suspends* OC (without LTCF) during a SOE declaration, AND that the SOE restriction covers the *entire* state, even though west of Hbg basically was fine in a few days, that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

I fully expect any tricks or misuse of whatever laws, rules, or emotional pleas that can be used against us will be.

If even one of us gets into a legal issue or gets arrested (or even detained and questioned), guess which video clip will make the headlines?

Heck, within a few runs of the story where Joe the Plumber gets questioned to show his LTCF and is told he cannot OC without it, go home, the bleeding media will be running stories about how an attempted coup was repelled at the state capitol and it was a good thing so may people from CF were there to "help the police" save the city from the gun nuts.

We also need to have an agenda. Why are we marching? What action has the BEST chance of achieving that goal?

IMHO, one of our main goals is to highlight the stark contrast between responsible gun owners and nut job murderers who picked up a gun instead of a baseball bat.

I think striking down the fantasy that there are a couple of "gun clubs" and "militia style groups" in PA who are nuts and want assault weapons, to take over the government, and steal all the milk in the state is a good goal.

If we can show the public repeatedly that responsible gun owners aren't "nuts" or fanatics, rather people they probably know and respect- honest, honorable people you likely see and deal with every day...then we are hacking away at the "gun nutz" red herring image the anti-gun people are presenting.

AND, changing that image will give everyone- politicians and public alike- reason to pause and consider how MANY responsible gun owners there are who are silently protecting themselves and acting as unsung crime deterrents.

A second main goal I propose is the show of solidarity and organization. Politicians don't give a hoot about a handful of guys and gals with similar interests who meet up to complain about a few things.

What they DO care about, and indeed FEAR, is an ORGANIZED MOVEMENT of a COHESIVE GROUP, that shares a common goal and WILL VOTE and TAKE POLITICAL, FINANCIAL, and PR ACTION.

Simple fact of the matter is Politicians only take a position on an issue for one of two reasons: 1) I am counting on them and if I help their cause, they will vote for me and support me and further my career, or 2) If I don't appease this group, they will actively campaign against me, my actions, work to block my projects, give me bad press, and weaken my position, possibly even threatening my chances of re-election.

So we want to offer #1 and send a clear message that if we cannot accomplish #1, we will move to #2.

I would like to see us change the perception that the "Public must fear gun owners." I would like the population to understand that "We ARE the public. Possibly even a majority, or at least a very large portion of the public."

There is no "Them" vs "Us" That is a lie perpetrated by the anti-gun nuts. And don't kid yourself, many of these "anti-gun nuts" are so far out there, it's possible a number of them IMHO should be disqualified from owning a gun due to their unstable nature and lack of self-control. At least that is my opinion from my experience.

If anyone has a different idea for goals that we think we can accomplish or at least make progress on, let's hear it!

We can't accomplish everything all at once. We don't want to waste our efforts.

I also don't have a problem adding goals for future events (April and maybe others?).

But- And please all listen to this carefully-

I do NOT want a bunch of negative complaining to undermine our efforts, now or in the future. Nobody is doing that yet, so let's keep it that way. Otherwise, we may as well just line up and start dropping our guns in the melting pot

So let's have some input on those two goals.

1. Contrast and dispel the myth that gun owners are dangerous and somehow support or are responsible for the criminal acts of lunatics who just happen to use a gun.

2. Show of Solidarity and Organization

Anyone want to propose another?

I don't know how to work the mag or AWB issues. Maybe slogans? Ideas?

[truecrimson]

Haven't read the new posts since Ungawa's, but wanted to share.

I just got off the phone with the Capital Police. Their initial thought is that they do not have the facilities to check long guns. However the very polite lady i spoke to will check with her superior to be sure and call me back.

[ungawa]

Wow. I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm and strong convictions. Let me clarify a few things so we don't get off track.

OC comments: Are we in a State of Emergency or not? There are other threads about this. Although I think an idiot wrote the regulation that *suspends* OC (without LTCF) during a SOE declaration, AND that the SOE restriction covers the *entire* state, even though west of Hbg basically was fine in a few days, that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

We were in a state of emergency during the last Second Amendment rally in Harrisburg. And we probably will be during the next one.

I OC wherever I go, and I'm not stopping for you. You don't like it, that's fine, I won't come. I can assure you, most of the people on this forum that attend the Harrisburg rallies and lobbying events won't come either, because I probably know most of them. It's not the end of the world, just letting you know. Sincerely, good luck with your effort. I don't want to clog up the thread so I'll leave it at that. No response necessary.

[PreserveandProtect]

Okay, some others posted while I was writing my previous post. Let me make the OC issue perfectly clear.

I plan to OC *WITH MY LTCF*

By "OC Agenda" I am referring to carrying OC *WITHOUT LTCF*

I agree with OC without LTCF, but *IF* we are still in a SOE, that *could* be used as RAS for harrassers to believe a number of people are OC without LTCF in violation of the SOE regulations and tie us up with pat downs, ID's, LTCF, s/n running...you know the usual harrassment stuff.

That is the point.

Now- the issue about long arms. I don't care either way, but I am just one person.

This is OUR rally, meaning yours, mine, his, hers, etc.

If enough people want to carry AR-15's, I'll bring mine, too. There may be benefit to having a few hundred people peacefully carrying AR-15s and not a single rifle jumps off its strap and takes over its human host to go on a shooting spree

My opinion is the first two goals, but I'll go with whatever you guys want- AND carefully consider the advice of those folks who are experienced at working the political agendas and events.

So I would suggest we change our comments from "I won't be a part if you do/don't do this" to "I think we should do/not do *this* because..."

And then we can decide as a group what we are going to do and our rules of engagement. Maybe we do one thing as a group, but accept that some individuals may do xyz in addition?

Again, this is the planning stage for the next day or three (again, my opinion), then we move into the "git 'er done" phase

Make sense?

[LBaker]

We were in a state of emergency during the last Second Amendment rally in Harrisburg. And we probably will be during the next one.

I OC wherever I go, and I'm not stopping for you. You don't like it, that's fine, I won't come. I can assure you, most of the people on this forum that attend the Harrisburg rallies and lobbying events won't come either, because I probably know most of them. It's not the end of the world, just letting you know. Sincerely, good luck with your effort. I don't want to clog up the thread so I'll leave it at that. No response necessary.

No one is asking you to. Just be legal...

[Kazz]

I see no problem with the carrying of rifles. The media portraits black rifle owners as nutjobs. Why not show them that normal people enjoy shooting and owning these rifles too?

[truecrimson]

OK, capital police called back. They do not have facilities for checking long guns, so anyone carrying a long gun will not be able to enter the capital building unless they leave the long gun in their vehicle or something first.

[gnbrotz]

OK, capital police called back. They do not have facilities for checking long guns, so anyone carrying a long gun will not be able to enter the capital building unless they leave the long gun in their vehicle or something first.

Did you happen to mention their legal obligation to check these items? This whole government ignoring the law when compliance is inconvenient for them really gets old.