Question about 3 DUI loophole to own gun.

[grippi]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum, but in reading through a few threads, thought that someone here may be able to answer a question for me. I will shortly be going off of probation for a 3rd DUI I received 4+ years ago. According to PA law, this is my issue with getting a gun, and permit again.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6105
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) A person who has been convicted of an offense enumerated in subsection (b), within or without this Commonwealth, regardless of the length of sentence or whose conduct meets the criteria in subsection (c) shall not possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture or obtain a license to possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture a firearm in this Commonwealth.

We'll now skip ahead to section (c)(3) Which is the only part of the law prohibiting me from lawful gun ownership, once off probation.

(c) Other persons.--In addition to any person who has been convicted of any offense listed under subsection (b), the following persons shall be subject to the prohibition of subsection (a)...

(3) A person who has been convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol or controlled substance as provided in 75 Pa.C.S. § 3802 (relating to driving under influence of alcohol or controlled substance) or the former 75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, on three or more separate occasions within a five-year period. For the purposes of this paragraph only, the prohibition of subsection (a) shall only apply to transfers or purchases of firearms after the third conviction.

Okay, so on the surface this seems pretty straight forward, I can't own a gun, right? but this is where my case becomes a bit more unique. My first 2 DUI's happened within a week of each other, I know, but as a result of this, my first DUI was migrated to my second DUI case. and they equated to one conviction of DUI 1st, and 2nd offense, according to court documents.

So this is where it really gets interesting. I've highlighted, and underlined in the law above, where this gets tricky. According to the language in section three, what it says is convicted of, on three or more SEPARATE occasion within a five year period. my first and second accounted for one conviction, making my third DUI, actually, a second conviction.

Does this make sense to anyone else, or am I just reaching? I know I'm reaching, but at the same time, that is what the law states. Did I just find a loophole that will actually help me out in a year, when I am done with probation? I have not even thought about drinking and driving since my last conviction, and will never do it again, but will I be paying for it anyway for the rest of my life, or does anyone else think that I may actually have a case here? Thanks to everyone with input, in advance. I look forward to being a member here, as it seems like my kinda town. Thanks again.

[gnbrotz]

Could you possibly post the docket for your case (available online) with any personal/identifying info removed (if you wish)?

IANAL, but I don't see how a single conviction can be both "first" and "second". I can see two closely occurring offenses tried together, and ruled on together, but I would expect them two be considered two separate offenses (happening on different dates) that ended up being adjudicated on the same date.

I'm curious to see what our resident legal minds have to say about this.

[NathanB]

bot sure how you can be charged with 2 duis in 1 instance id think you are not permitted to own a firearm but im not a lawyer.

[IGPJAP]

The migration only means different docket numbers were merged. What matters here is how many separate times you were convicted of violating 3731 or 3802. Need to see the docket to be sure.

[knight0334]

bot sure how you can be charged with 2 duis in 1 instance id think you are not permitted to own a firearm but im not a lawyer.

The 3 DUI rule says a person cannot get a LTCF or have a firearm transferred to him. He can still own the ones he already possess unless one or more of the DUI's has a max possible sentence that exceeds 2 years - like a PA M1.

[imperialism2024]

Also, was the first DUI resolved through ARD or was it a straight conviction? While an ARD verdict still impacts your driver's license as a real conviction, the law relating to firearms prohibition seems to clearly state "conviction". Might be another way around it...

[HiredGoon]

The 3 DUI rule says a person cannot get a LTCF or have a firearm transferred to him. He can still own the ones he already possess unless one or more of the DUI's has a max possible sentence that exceeds 2 years - like a PA M1.

So, could he legally OC where it is lawful, then?

[grippi]

The 3 DUI rule says a person cannot get a LTCF or have a firearm transferred to him. He can still own the ones he already possess unless one or more of the DUI's has a max possible sentence that exceeds 2 years - like a PA M1.

according to the language in the dockets, I was convicted of a 1st-1st Dui, and a 2nd-1st DUI

this is copied from the docket
GUILTY PLEA TO
DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUE
GUILTY PLEA TO
DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE-1ST-1ST OFFENSE (M2). MJB.
BLOOD ALCOHOL CONTENT LEVEL

GUILTY PLEA TO
DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE-2ND-1ST OFFENSE (M2). MJB.
BLOOD ALCOHOL CONTENT LEVEL

my "third" gets a little strange, as I plead into a DUI court program to avoid the 1-5 year in state prison sentence that awaited me. therefore, it was transferred to an IPP sentence. However, it reads

DUI: Gen Imp/Inc of Driving Safely - 3rd Off
DUI Court Order
Defendant is hereby ordered to participate in the York County Adult Drug Treatment Court Alcohol Monitoring Program

I will see if I can simply post the documents without my info, but will have to see how I can do that.

[NathanB]

i was under the impression that a third dui became a felony. not sure where i got that from. now wouldnt you have to answer yes when you check the box asking about drug or alcohol abuse? if you answered truthfully anyways

[grippi]

here are the links to the files online. I don't believe there is anything too private, as it is all public record, at this point.

first offense
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketS...R-0006198-2003

second-first offense
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketS...R-0006199-2003

third-but really second, maybe, offense
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketS...R-0003852-2008

thanks for any incite, greatly appreciated.